Son has just told us he is non binary

[Chipshopninja]

13 years old

Wants us to use they/them

He came out as Bi a a couple of years ago and I was fine with that but this has really hit me hard

I'm terrified that this is going to lead to hormones and surgery.

Don't know why I'm posting tbh but feeling crappy because I didn't handle it well. I cried.

I can't call him my son anymore

He's my only child

Has anyone else been through this?

However, I'm not sorry for thinking that you are acting like a high priest keeping magical secrets, frankly, because that's how I see it. I see it this way due to your continuing to be angry about defining something you claim is important, but refuse to explain it as if it's so special and secret you can only share with someone who is nice to you

What you “see” is entirely of your own construction and nothing whatsoever to do with me or anything I wrote. Nor is it anything I can do anything about.

I wish you all the best and (although I can’t help) a willingness to reconsider your assumptions on this topic in the future.

I can't reconsider my assumptions if I have nothing concrete to consider. I don't just believe in things because people tell me I should. I need some facts, some argument, some reason...but I get none!

What if I said I Adoloopsa was real and if your kid says she is one, you should accept it. You have never of an Adoloopsa and ask me what it is. I tell you I won't share my knowledge of Adoloopsa because you might laugh at me. Or disagree with me. So, you go away unsure what a Adoloopsa is and decide that your kid probably isn't one because the people who claim they know won't tell you anything about it and your neighbor's kid who says he's an Adoloopsa just seems really confused.

Guess what? You won't trust me or believe me, will you?

Ok, please do tell us what being non binary is then ?

Professionally I see mostly it in possibly neurodivergent girls whose lived experience of hetrosexual relationships have been traumatic and therefore for whom the prospect of becoming an object of sexual desire to men is horrifying.

But you clearly see it differently please share your experiences.

She can't offer an explanation... because it's unexplainable.

Because you have to define what a woman/man is, and people who get into this lifestyle will tie themselves in knots to try and explain what a woman is without having to mention biology or stereotypes....and it just can't be done.

Because it's all bs. There's no such thing as non-binary, it's just someone who doesn't fit gender stereotypes. That's it. But to define yourself by not fit gender stereotypes, you're saying that what makes you a woman is the stereotype... Which is patently wrong. And they can't mention sex, because they at male or female. So... Yea, that's the struggle!

Trying to understand this… in my teens I sometimes thought I could just as easily be a boy as a girl. I didn’t get the girly ways of talking and didn’t want to experiment with makeup and so on and I was more interested in logic than feelings. But a framework in which I could have thought I was halfway between a boy and a girl wasn’t there so I could not adopt it.
i guess I’m saying that I’ve always felt more like a person than a woman. But I am a woman as it happens and that’s fine.

This. Exactly. At 11 he still needs you to guide him and pick him up when he gets it wrong. Have conviction in your opinion.

Oh dear.

I have just shared my experiences please tell me where/ what I have got wrong or misunderstood.

Do I take from this you were one of the pp’s insisting to OP that her son was autistic?

When you say “professionally” and given your name, are you a psychiatrist who specialises in neurodivergence?

i guess I’m saying that I’ve always felt more like a person than a woman.

I know you're not saying otherwise explicitly, but a woman IS a person.

You can see how we need feminism when young people think the choice is between being a rounded human person, OR one of these bundles of vague yet undesirable characteristics called "woman". (Or "man").

Still can't tell us what non-binary is then? Or even what it means to you?
Seems odd that you can't explain a part of your identity 🤷‍♀️

Everyone feels like a person...

True, but my point was that I was not strongly identified as being a woman in the way that some women are.

It boils down to the same thing in the end:

Society: "men are like this, women are like that".

GC people: "but I'm a woman and I'm not like that . Those labels must be wrong."

TRAs: "but I'm a woman and I'm not like that. My body must be wrong."

I do think that for many trans people, they realise the labels are wrong but can't see any other way of changing perceptions about themselves other that to change their bodies - if an unthinking person is going to make assumptions about you, may as well make them a closer set of assumptions, or ones that are more preferable to you.

You need to tell him that boy or girl isn’t a feeling. Like eye colour or height isn’t a feeling. It’s an objective biological fact. But in no way does your sex have to dictate how you dress or act. ‘Gender’ is essentially dress sense.

You don’t have to be. Female isn’t an identity. You don’t identify with your eye colour, do you?

Obsessing over your ‘identity’ - and worse, expecting others to give a shit about it - is supreme narcissism

I don't know whether you are accusing me of narcissism or making some other point, but you have missed my point entirely.

What do you mean "I was not strongly identified"? By other people? Yourself?

I am wondering if this fascination of what gender you are, might be, choose to be, is driven from media. Today there is an article about the first gay darts referee and that the sport is open to people of all sexualities which is absolutely right. Same thing happened in rugby with Nigel Owens, F1 with Ralf Schumacher. Does it really matter what sexuality a person is to do the job or sport they participate in? What is the fascination?

Why then is it not OK for girls not to be girlie girls and boys to want to do performing arts that they have to be trans? I just feel there is a double standard going on that as soon as a girl or boy (child!) shows an interest in something considered non gender typical (old school nonsense e.g. when women were not allowed to play football) they must want to be man/woman/bi etc, taking advantage of their innocence to influcence them. But a gay adult man can, rightly, have every right to be there.

And the fact schools & some politicians are allowing this narrative is just nuts. Some of the best cooks, hairdressers, fashion designers are men of both sexualities. Some of the best scientists and engineers have been women (e.g. Hedy Lamar, co founder of the mother of Wi-Fi & bluetooth and inspiration for Disney's snow white)

I’m always happy to have a productive exchange with people who are interested in sharing/ hearing different and new perspectives.
Your message right here makes it clear to me that - on this topic at least- that’s not what you are looking for.

13 is too early to define yourself for good.

Let him be what he wants to be right now, stay on his side always, whatever life throws at him. At some point he will naturally choose what is right for him and he won't be left alone because you are there.

Kids of this age receive inputs from anywhere, social media, trends, and so on, whereas older people like me only had to confront themselves with family or school. It's difficult for them, they have unbearable pressure.

It is hard for them not to be influenced by something they're possibly too young to understand.
A strong family member can help them understand themselves and discern.

It won't necessarily end up in hormones, sex change and so on, it is likely to be just a moment of growth.

As per school attitude stand on your grounds as others have said.

By myself. For example, when talking about who we’d like to be like when we grew up, my friends would always name women role models and I’d tend to think of men.
I thought of this when reading about the child who feels he is halfway between male and female. Some people think of themselves very much as a woman or a man, eg they say ‘I’m not the kind of man to do x’ or ‘I’m one of those women who…’ . But others including this child are not strongly identified in this way.

Hi OP,

I haven't been in your position as my DC are still very young but I've been giving it a lot of headspace.

Have you read 'Trans'? It was recommended on another thread. Some would label the author a terf but in fact it's the activists she's objecting to and I'm I'm loving hearing her viewpoints which is giving me the opportunity to formulate my own thoughts.

I think you are handling this perfectly. You've let him know he's absolutely fine and there's no rush to make decisions. Don't let him near puberty blockers and you're good!

There are few things sadder than seeing parents claim their kids aren’t the same sex anymore and referring to them as ‘they/ them’ even on an anonymous forum the daughter will never see. I can almost understand playing along in front of your child, but outside of that?

Bonkers.

So what?