Son has just told us he is non binary

[Chipshopninja]

13 years old

Wants us to use they/them

He came out as Bi a a couple of years ago and I was fine with that but this has really hit me hard

I'm terrified that this is going to lead to hormones and surgery.

Don't know why I'm posting tbh but feeling crappy because I didn't handle it well. I cried.

I can't call him my son anymore

He's my only child

Has anyone else been through this?

I wouldn’t entertain it at all, you’re either male or female there is no middle road. It is impossible to be non binary, it’s a word not an actual human state, Its becoming a fashion, we’ve managed without it perfectly well since time began, it was only invented 25 years ago.

What do you mean 'many people were biological men'? They will always be biological men.

Biological men can not become biological women. They can have breast implants, they can take hormones for life, they can have genital surgery to create a neo-vagina (that will need dilating regularly), they can have their adam's apple shaved down but ultimately they are trans women not biological women and they are still biological men.

I think there are some posters on here who can’t tell the difference between how to parent a 3 year old who wants to be a dog and a 16 year old who is distressed about their gender identity. A brisk no nonsense approach is fine for the 3 year old. Not so much a 16 year old who is also making big life decisions about exams and university etc.

I’d also like to mention that DC doesn’t have (and has never had) Tik Tok, Insta or Snapchat out of their own choice. I never thought I’d be in this situation. But here we are.

it also depends on what school said in that meeting when he said don’t tell my parents the HOY may well have said,

’that’s fine, I don’t need to tell them at this stage as you are just talking about it. However if you need the school to take any action like changing your pronouns or name on the register, that’s the point we need to chat to mum and dad’.

I think I might be having a chat about gender stereotyping and the damage it causes.

The bi thing is completely different and it's quite normal to know that at the age of 11 or before.

You’re reading too much into the wording.

I didn’t say they were biologically women once they transitioned. What I meant was they were biologically male when they were born and have since transitioned successfully to female. I didn’t mean they suddenly became biologically female if they transition.

I've been vegetarian for 42 years. DS 24 has been vegetarian all his life. Nothing to do with gender-bollocks.

When my daughter was about 11 (she is now 17) she told me that she wanted to be a boy. She wanted to use a binder to stop her chest development and wanted to take testosterone. We talked it through and agreed to keep on talking but I couldn’t agree to the drastic steps she wanted to take at that time. We carried on this conversation for about two years in which time she has a short, boyish haircut and continued to request a binder but was satisfied with a tight sports bra which she was only allowed to wear at the weekend. I contacted a psychologist for some help for us both in navigating this and she explained to me that many tweens/teens don’t feel like they fit in and think that they are so different that they must be trans. As time passes she spoke of it less and less - she is now bisexual but no longer says she is trans. When we first spoke I was shocked and upset - I didn’t want her life to be any harder than it needed to be and didn’t want her to be stigmatised. My situation sounds different to yours but I wanted you to know you are not alone in dealing with this and it sounds like you are a fabulous mother. Sending you strength and support and the knowledge that it will all be fine in the end, no matter what happens as your child grows in to an adult

No i am not.

You used the past tense 'they were biologically male'. they are STILL biologically male 🙄

They haven't successfully transitioned to be female they are a trans woman

You are spreading false information. It is dangerous to do so.

I didn’t say they were biologically women once they transitioned. What I meant was they were biologically male when they were born and have since transitioned successfully to female. I didn’t mean they suddenly became biologically female if they transition.

No, men don't transition successfully to be female. They remain men, but a subset of men with particular characteristics and shared experience. They don't start having a female experience of life. If someone isn't biologically female, how can they be female in any sense? It's as if what you wear or how you act is all that counts in being female and chromosomes and biology don't come into it. That's the bit where the whole ideology just breaks down.

100% when he is an adult and has his own house he can do whatever he wants in your house you will not be told what you can and can't say

How exactly does one ‘transition; to become female? I mean, a sex chromosome exchange isn’t possible afaik.

You see, I just don't understand this. I'm a woman, but tbh given the choice, I would have been born male. But I wasn't, so I have to deal with that.

Surely if your biological reality is causing you significant distress to come to terms with, you would seek psychological help? What's the alternative? Trying to get other people to pretend?

So are they women now or not?

Are they still biologically male?

Is there a difference between woman and female?

And if they are still biologically male, how are they female now?

Do you mean a biological male who is a female is a non biological woman?

Your post is confusing. Wording should surely be clear, which is the point of using words and definitions.

I find it very telling that many of the same people who think it's weird that someone could know they're bi at 11, also seem hysterical about the concept of someone being non binary.

Some people are trans/non binary and that's fine, the majority are not. And I'm sure some young people also experiment with using different pronouns and then change their minds later (also not that it's particularly relevant, as anyone can identify as non-binary - but some people are born physically intersex and identify as non-binary, so i don't think you can argue that non-binary people don't exist).

I personally would respect the choice of they/them pronouns and just see what happens, but regardless you sound like a great supportive mum with a really good relationship with your child.

It’s a minefield of linguistics and mental gymnastics which I am reluctantly navigating.

My understanding is that it comes down to there being a difference between sex, which is a biological fact, and gender which is a social construct.

So a man who has had gender reassignment surgery could be considered to be a woman from a gender perspective. Whether cis women should feel that socially constructed women are equal (but not the same) or not equal (and not the same) makes my head spin.

Female - of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes.

How has the biological male become female by having breast implants, and taking hormones etc? They can't become female.

You are telling untruths, it's wrong to spread misinformation.

Definitely, and watching anime can fuel it

I always think it's good to ask, what is the social construct definition of the gender woman? Define woman as a social construct.

They can't without going into to regressive stereotypes. Unless someone wants to define the term woman as a gender and social construct and prove me wrong.

Not read past page 1 as about to have dinner…. This just made me stop and pause!

I myself, an adult woman of 40+ years, have wondered if I might be non-binary. I don’t feel like a woman, although sometimes I WANT to try to be “girly”. I don’t feel like a man either. I don’t particularly want to be a man. Nor conform to stereotypes. What does it even feel like to know you are male or female? You see where I’m going? If I, after multiple children and growing up as female don’t fully know who or what I am, how the hell is a teenager going through puberty and hormonal hell supposed to know?!

being non binary doesn’t mean anything is being chopped off, or added, as far as I’m aware. I think maybe what they are trying to tell you is they don’t feel they fit the stereotype of a boy or a girl. And that’s fine! One day I’m sure they will find their place. For now, why not be supportive and try your best not to use gender specific pronouns. This may be a phase they outgrow in 6 months and cringe about, or this could actually be them and their future - how you react is going to stay with them either way. Do you want them to remember you being a supportive parent that they can come and talk to about anything? Or do you want them to remember you shutting them down and deciding not to gone to you the next time there’s something big in their life, through fear you won’t support them?

I’m sure it won’t be easy to navigate, but if all they want is non-binary pronouns, is that really worth an argument/fallout over?

*not to COME to you (not gone to you - stupid autocorrect)

It's shocking how many posts are being deleted. Freedom of speech is dead.

@PandyMoanyMum

I think that’s a very helpful way to look at it.

I do think it’s good to challenge the social construct side of things. In Yr 6, DD kept saying ‘I’m not popular” - but I could see she wasn’t fitting in with the more gender stereotypical behaviours of her female classmates. She always got on with boys as much as girls - if not more so. As friends.

My initial thoughts on her short hair were : how are grandparents going to react, how will her classmates react. It’s also challenging my perceptions of girly-ness, and almost mourning that she won’t wear a dress or look girly.

But why should I want that? She wears comfortable clothes which don’t restrict her in anyway. She’s active, healthy, sporty.

TBH I’m actually damn proud of her for having the confidence, faith in herself and to stand up for what others might perceive as ‘weird’. She’s actually embraced the ‘I’m not popular’ and turned it into a good thing. She is creative and thinks differently.

Anyone? Can you define the socially constructed gender 'woman' please?

I am not sure what the definition is, so I can't tell whether I am a socially constructed woman gender or not. I am great at DIY but also like handbags, so I am confused which gender I fall in to. Please help me find out by giving me a definition. Thanks

Eldest dd has beenthrough her teens, lesbian, assexual, non binary, wanting a sex change, didn't believe in marriage and now happily married at 26.
It was ...um..interesting, I just smiled and nodded,