To think new mums are sometimes misled with the amount of ‘help’ to expect

[SneakyLilNameChange]

Friend recently had a baby and was speaking to me a few weeks later about how no one had ‘helped’ her in the early days. She has a v supportive partner who had 4 weeks off and did at least his fair share and then some but she meant friends and family really. The books she had read said when guests come she should go nap or ask them to do washing etc when in reality she felt cheeky asking them that and no one offered or started doing tasks/chores around the house. Something on social media suggested saying people could visit only if they bought a meal which she apparently suggested to a sibling who came with no meal and thought she was joking. Despite having all their family come, coo and bring gifts and support them emotionally she feels really let down.

It made me think actually that all sounds like normal family behaviour and telling women their visitors will roll their sleeves up and run a hoover around or bring meals is unrealistic. Some family will and it would be lovely to have that obviously but for most people it’s them and their partner who do everything. It certainly was for us!

The problem is that these conversations end up lumping in people who choose to be child free and those who are childless through lack of choice. It could really cause immense emotional pain to the latter and why would you want to when they don’t hold sweeping thoughts about people with children.

Some people without children are smug and incapable of seeing other people’s POV, some people with children are smug and incapable of seeing other people’s POV. Just because one person without children made a negative (and blatantly untrue) comment does not mean you have to comment negatively back and offend an entire group of people,

I haven't caused emotional pain to anybody as I have merely stated a hypothesis. I haven't actually gone and lectured anyone on how to live their lives because we all have different lives, personalities, needs and wants. I didn't start this conversation.

I stand by what I said.

Hypothetical situation not hypothesis.

Large majority of the adult population must be ok for society to still be functioning. It is still a fact that the nurse, doctors, care takers looking after you later in life is someone else's child. Just look at what happens to South Korea. Countries like that are struggling to replace it's population and where is an aging country going to rely on for workers and taxpayers? Importing from other countries who's still birthing children but it is still facts that these are someone's children.

If you choose to be childless that's ok! Not everyone is cut out to be a parent or may be restricted by life circumstances. We are talking about offering a kind gesture to a friend or family to bring over a meal or offer to load their dishwasher when you are over if you see they are struggling to adapt to the new routines and cope with initial sleep deprivation.

Your tone of your post is basically implying majority of women haven't done their research before having kids and now wanting breaks and childfree time because they aren't prepared to give 100 percent for that "rare moment of fun".

Parenting is different to all the classes you take about parenting, all the life experiences shared and researches you can do on Google. It is also different to each person. No one is ever absolutely prepared for what's about to come their way of being a parent. The love and joy you feel is also incomparable to anything else experienced.

When you are going through the posts here of parents wanting a break, it is not because they regret having their children. Parents just want a break literally on a physical sense like you may want to sleep but that doesn't mean you hate waking up and living your life. Sleep is just needed to survive and live another day.

And parents may also want a break to just have a moment to be just themselves. It's just a reset button to recharge before going back to their kids. They aren't saying they want to abandon their kids all together.

Call it a hypothesis but you made a sweeping statement about a group of women all because one woman made a ridiculous and inaccurate comment about parenting. I appreciate you didn’t start the conversation but you chose to make a judgmental hypothesis about it a group of people simply to snap back at the one person.

Reading this thread reinforces why birth rates are through the floor.

Which is a positive development. This poor planet doesn't need more humans.

An over-simplistic view. We are in no way prepared for the demographic challenges ahead, which will likely lead to a significant amount of human suffering.

Better that than animal and marine suffering, @CrispieCake

Although she may have been unreasonable for expecting so much help, I definitely think that if you go to visit someone with a new(-ish) baby that you should bring them a meal along with a baby gift. I always do this.

What is your purpose on a mother's forum to tell mothers the world is better off without their babies?

If you choose to have a child free life that's great. You don't need to go on a mother's forum where the primary purpose is offering support and sharing experiences with other parents to seek validation of your life choices.

People cant win can they? Im pretty sure it wont be long before there is yet another MN post about how an "overbearing" MIL turned up obviously passive aggressively suggesting new mum wasnt coping by offering to cook and/or clean and then having the audacity to want to hold their grandchild when new mum had decided the baby wasnt a toy to be passed around the in laws and could only have antibacterial masked mum contact for the next 20 years....

@SEAHORSESROCK2 . Having spent Christmas with my in-laws and returned slightly traumatised, I have come back convinced of one thing - it is rarely a MIL or a DIL problem, it is almost always a DH/DP problem

My MIL is a kind, sensible woman who likes doing things her own way in her own house and, if I could just relax and enjoy being a guest, I would have no problems with that. Ok, I might be a bit bored and drink a little too much, but I'd just enjoy a nice respite from everyday life and try to be moderately helpful.

The problem is when you add in two kids for whom MIL's way of doing things doesn't work and a husband who resorts to being a lazy teenager in his parents' house and quite frankly needs a boot up the backside. Without him taking charge over what the kids need, it becomes a slightly awkward interaction between MIL and me.

The problem is that many men don't take enough ownership of childcare, housework and family relations to realise what help would actually be useful (and if PILs don't want to help - also fine - what visits would be acceptable and not get in the way). So they don't feed that back to their parents/wider family in a way that is constructive and not hurtful and then the relationship ends up becoming slightly strained.

This is true. One of the problems is that what some people want is a robot that does exactly what you want it to do, when you want it and in the manner you wish it to be done, often with the added benefit of being able to read your mind.

As has been mentioned by others, the culture of the village in reality doesn't really work like that. You can't just switch all the people off when you don't want them, when it doesn't suit you. It doesn't take much for 'the village' to become interfering busybodies who undermine your parenting.

I’m reminded of a thread a couple of years back - the OP was in a friendship group of childfree women, one of them got pregnant after a ONS and decided to keep the baby, and was fully expecting the rest of the group to set up a babysitting rota and generally run around after her. The “it takes a village”, you can’t expect everyone to want to be a part of that village.

Exactly. @ObelixtheGaul

We villagers are tired of being treated like servant robots.

Have at it yourselves, know-it-all new mums. We'll be sat somewhere relaxing with our feet up, keeping our unwanted opinions to ourselves.

I remember that thread.

A few different things are being conflated here.

Mothers who don't want people to visit her during newborn phase and mothers who need people to come over to their house to help are often two different groups of mothers. i.e. obviously mothers who worry about germs, about privacy and settling in as a new family is not going to be seeking people to come over to babysit.

Some people are cherry picking the worst traits of different mothers and generalising all new mothers being unreasonable. As seen in the survey, it's obvious that most mothers don't actually expect help. So that contradicts to the complaint about being "robot servants". You might just happen to have friends who are bridezilla versions of mothers. The problem is the friend and not all the mothers out there so channel the frustration at the friend and not others.

The question OP was raising here is if you are a friend of a new parent, should you offer to drop some food off or offer help with a chore when you visit. If you honestly care about your friend who just came back from hospital and recovering, you would offer some form of support especially when you choose to visit. I have never asked a friend to babysit but it's very sweet of people offering. Would people not buy a bottle of wine when they go to a friend's house for dinner and offer to help with dishes afterwards? It's just common courtesy. If you can't extend a kind gesture and companionship, just don't visit the new parents as obviously the relationship is not there for you to care about their physical wellbeing after birth.

Well I didn't expect (or need) anyone to help me when I had a baby but some people brought me food and I was surprised by how much I appreciated it. Others made themselves (and me) a cup of tea and it was great to not have to get off the sofa! It was also nice to know they felt comfortable enough to help themselves to that in my house.

Whenever I visit a new baby I always take a meal and some snacks and ask if there is anything they'd like me to do whilst I'm there or anything theyd like me to run out and pick up. I always offer to make a hot drink and bring a glass if water if they start breastfeeding. Not hard for anyone to do that really.

The other things depend on your relationship to the mother. With close friends/relatives, if there's washing up in the sink or a dishwasher to load I do it while we're chatting and they usually don't really notice till after I've left. I've sat with babies whilst the mums sleep for an hour, done a food shop, taken a toddler to the park with a sandwich. It's nice to support each other.

@WaveNeverBreaking he sounds like an incredible man.