To think new mums are sometimes misled with the amount of ‘help’ to expect

[SneakyLilNameChange]

Friend recently had a baby and was speaking to me a few weeks later about how no one had ‘helped’ her in the early days. She has a v supportive partner who had 4 weeks off and did at least his fair share and then some but she meant friends and family really. The books she had read said when guests come she should go nap or ask them to do washing etc when in reality she felt cheeky asking them that and no one offered or started doing tasks/chores around the house. Something on social media suggested saying people could visit only if they bought a meal which she apparently suggested to a sibling who came with no meal and thought she was joking. Despite having all their family come, coo and bring gifts and support them emotionally she feels really let down.

It made me think actually that all sounds like normal family behaviour and telling women their visitors will roll their sleeves up and run a hoover around or bring meals is unrealistic. Some family will and it would be lovely to have that obviously but for most people it’s them and their partner who do everything. It certainly was for us!

I agree here. My mam/ sisters/brothers/ best friends offered to do laundry/ quick clean of kitchen/ bring in bits from the shop/ you go for a nap which was brilliant. Particularly when DH was back at work, so really useful during the day or when he was working late. I repaid the favour BTW.

Other family/ friends came to see us & baby & entertained the other DC (v helpful).

There's a mix, you know.

My DM and I did some of that sort of help of my DSis, because she was visibly not coping (v high needs baby 1st time, baby in NICU the 2nd).

I'm not sure I'd plunge in unasked if it were a friend. Make the tea, sure.

I had a village - it was a literal village with aunties and uncles granny and grandad close by, old style neighbours who managed the balance of minding their business and yet being aware if you were struggling or needed help and being willing to offer.

It doesn't have to be intrusive to keep an eye out for someone who might need an extra hand for little while, just a text to say you are popping into town and do they need anything. We text to ask for lifts for our kids to the bus stop, we've delivered dinners to the unwell man down the road and to his young adult son in the year or so after his father passed. I drove him 10 miles to his job dozens of times until he sorted out his own transport. And when there's an old person who needs a strapping young lad to help them with things around the house, he offers to help.

You opt in to the system or don't as you prefer, (like one neighbour doesn't like to interact so she gets left alone as she prefers) but you can't go bitching about friends family and neighbours leaving you to your own devices if you yourself never bothered with them when they needed that village.

I think it does happen in other cultures, it certainly did when I was young and adventurous. I was lucky enough to spend time with a family in a village in North Africa. The expectation of new mums was all the female relatives would arrive the day after the birth, the new mother was expected to prepare a meal, serve the visitors (quite a lot of them) and provide refreshments until they leave. This was somewhere where the women had to collect the water from a well and everything was prepared from scratch which included mum getting up early to bake the bread for breakfast and to spin the wool, weave the wool and then make dear husband's clothes although to be fair they didn't do that every day.

They usually went to a clinic when in strong labour and came back home almost immediately after delivery. I do remember one woman asking her husband to take her to the clinic, he said he would when she'd cooked a meal for him and the other children and had ironed some clothes for him. She was in the late stages of labour.

I think sometimes we have an idealised image of other cultures. I'm sure there are cultures where new mothers are pampered but to imagine it happens everywhere outside the western world is wrong.

Sorry if I've shattered some illusions.

Just to be clear I don't think that makes it OK for women to not get support, particularly from the man who fathered their baby I just wanted to clarify that these things don't always happen the way we think they do.

The amount of content that is pushed to new mums about this “baby bubble” and not allowing visitors, you need weeks with no visitors to bond with baby, is unbelievable.
The amount of threads I see on here saying we want to bond with baby, so won’t be having visitors for 4 weeks blow my mind, especially banning parents and in laws from seeing the baby. Maybe it’s just me but I enjoyed my mum and in laws coming to see that baby for an hour or 2 every couple of days, it’s not like people expect to move in, they just want to check on you and see the baby. It’s a joyful time to have together.

I might be odd but I couldn't wait to show the world the amazing babies I'd created and I expected people to be queuing up for the honour of admiring them.

I think I was a bit impressed with my achievements.

@TheignT

The expectation of new mums was all the female relatives would arrive the day after the birth

Why just the female relatives?

Well I was in the women's part of the house, I don't know where the men were but they certainly weren't sitting with us. I wonder if the poor woman was preparing even more food for the men?

Well, for me it was like an atomic bomb had gone off in my life. I had a CS whose scar got infected, difficulties breastfeeding, an irritable, high-needs baby who barely shut an eye, and DS had been made redundant on my due date. The last thing I wanted was visitors. So I didn’t have any for three weeks.

This!

Collectively, we are all 'to blame' for the society we live in. If we'd wanted to keep living as we once did, we would have done so. Perhaps we should have.

Plenty of 'regular' people have been and still are instrumental in maintaining the wheels of capitalism. It wasn't built by aliens, you know.

It's easier to look out instead of in, isn't it? It's easier to expect the mythical 'someone else' to shape the community you live in. To do nothing to change it, then moan that it hasn't changed, that it isn't what you want it to be. To say, 'it's not my fault I can't help my neighbour, but it's my neighbour's fault she doesn't help me.'

This thread is about expectations. Expectations held by those who live in the same conditions of greed and capitalism that somebody else who is also running on the same treadmill can not only help, but should be expected to.

How does that work, exactly? If the reason we can't do it is because of this alien beast called 'capitalism' that has dropped upon us from outer space and we are mere helpless feathers, blown about by it's power, how can we possibly expect others, living under the same yoke, to shift themselves for us? And yet people do.

People complain about the loss of the 'village' as though it's an object we accidentally dropped in the sea. It isn't. It's a collection of people. Regular people. Regular people who, increasingly, are CHOOSING to close their doors on their fellow man, and only open them when they need something.

It's not entirely new. There's fables and legends going back centuries exploring the central conceit of the person who does nothing for anyone else, then cries when nobody does anything for them. It's never their fault, either.

I am not removing all 'blame' from capitalism as a societal model. But capitalism originated with people. It wasn't a divine instruction.

That is not quite what I said. I was basically saying plan for the worst, hope for the best.

I would have been a bit offended if my visitors started cleaning while they were visiting, so I wouldn't think to start doing it for someone else (I'd be happy to if asked though). My DP had paternity leave so he did take over some cooking and cleaning til going back to work each time.

I only had visitors that I actually liked so I was quite happy to pass my babies over for cuddles and have my hands free to drink a coffee. In the first few weeks I was desperate for adult company and enjoyed giving them the full run down on my labour and birth experience!

Everyone is different though and I don't think there's any shame in needing more support, but you probably need to be specific and as for it unless you are someone who has already supported others.

My parents wanted child, so yes, they had to raise me.
Surelly you don't expect children to have some sort of gratitude for doing bare minimum as a parent and raising them?

If they want to be part of another generation, yes, I do expect them offering help the same way I offer to help my parents as an adult.

Absolutely true.

And also, a lot of this used to happen when father’s didn’t have paternity leave - friends and family aren’t going to do the cleaning and cook meals when there’s a perfectly able bodied man who could be doing it!

Fair enough, but as I've had cancer twice, a perforated bowel requiring surgery, a bone marrow transplant and a hysterectomy pregnancy and birth were an absolute breeze in comparison.

"Let me hold the baby whilst you shower" I can understand, but everything else should be the parents. If family want to help, then great, but absolutely do not expect it.

Harder now as most people work so less available. Some families are great though.

And I would very well hope you had plenty of help! But it isn't a competition and not everyone has easy pregnancies and births.

It isn't a competition, I agree. Not one i would choose to be in either. I was just making the comparison that although pregnancy and birth can be difficult for some women, for which I have sympathy, it isn't an illness in itself nor do all women have a difficult pregnancy and birth experience. I have indeed have lots of wonderful help and support over the years for which I will be forever grateful.

We're all different though aren't we. I'd be aghast if someone came round and started vacuuming my house

People do not offer to bring you food if you are not well. Especially if your partner is around at home to help.

Smetimes even if you donhave a village, events can mean that you can't access them.nAfter childbirth I ended up in HDU and my baby was in NICU. Additionally I had lost a brother to herpes when he was a baby. I was so anxious that my rule was that nobody touched my baby apart from me and my partner. Also, I was such a mess physically and mentally that I isolated myself completely for the first 6 months.I wouldn't go to baby groups because I was worried about germ ridden toys, I was worried about visitors because of germs.
I know that lots of women went through worse though, particularly during lockdown, so I never complained. Looking back, I had raging PND, but I never told anyone at the time or sought help. I felt ashamed of my failure to protect DS during the birth, not helped by the fact that I was told by many HCPs that it was a miracle that DS and I survived the birth. I had no shortage of people who would have helped, I just couldn't let them.

From the guidance - Any situation that a person finds traumatic can cause PTSD

I can absolutely understand how raising a baby during a global pandemic could be traumatic and therefore could cause PTSD. Is that the case with the poster who thought she has it? Who knows. But it's possible

This isn’t a comment on that poster’s situation , I have no idea whether she has diagnosable PTSD or not and it is not my place to judge. I have noticed it is one of those diagnoses that people do self diagnose though. It does make me wonder if it’s then not believed as much when you are badly suffering with it and people just think “oh it’s only PTSD”.’

It is not just about a perceived traumatic event, you have to experience a number of symptoms from a specific set of criteria too.

The criteria is much more specific than some people on here have made out - have been exposed to a traumatic event or situation (either short or long-lasting) of exceptionally threatening or catastrophic nature, which would be likely to cause pervasive distress in almost anyone.

The Covid pandemic was very difficult for a huge number of people. I am aware a number of health care professionals did develop PTSD as did some families/individuals who watched loved ones become critically ill or die over video call and not being able to be with them. So, I want to recognise that I am sure there was a vast increase in people suffering diagnosed PTSD as a direct result of what occurred.