Great relationship with SIL but SIL hates my mum

[pnakolada]

Is anyone in this position ?

It's very tricky for me and I have always remained impartial. Listened to both sides if they wanted to talk about it. Always had a good words of peace to say when they've complained about each other..

I've always told my mum straight up when I think she's being out of order or mean to SIL. I've never told SIL when I think she's being mean to my mum though as I think it will ruin our relationship.

I get on very very well with SIL and always have.

But lately, some of the things I'm hearing from my mum about how SIL is treating her.. I am feeling very upset for my mum.

I'll never talk to SIL about it as it won't be good for our relationship. I'm just finding it hard..

Has anyone been in this kind of situation? Any advice ?

Well then your relationship with your SIL isn’t as good as you think it is, is it?

I would tell my brother it's on him
To sort SIL out

Doesn't your mum have a point too? When SIL says things about your mum, you don't tell her she's being mean do you? Because you don't want to ruin your relationship with SIL. That doesn't sound like not taking sides to me 🤷‍♀️

I can understand your SIL - her husband had an abusive childhood and was exposed to domestic violence, and has continued to be anxious that his mother is subject to ongoing abuse, as she won't leave her abuser. So your SIL is angry with both your parents, I think I'd feel the same as her, I think she's acting to support and protect her husband and children.

I think you shouldn't choose between your mum and your SIL, but don't engage with either of them when they talk about the other. I don't think you should be a sounding board for your mum to talk about her abysive husband, it's unfair as you had to live with the violence as a child, and have to relive it, and cope with her refusal to leave your dad.

Your mum can talk to Women's Aid if she wants to off-load, they can support her to leave, if she wants to, or just provide a listening ear. It's not your job to be her counsellor, she's not going to let you help her change anything.

Don't let your parents toxic relationship destroy your relationship with your brother and his family.

I come from a situation where my mum didn't experience good parenting when she was young. As a result I was neglected.

My mum also did not really have a chance. She didn't see any good parenting when she was growing up.

But I have chosen to try to break the cycle like your SIL has.

People like your SIL who have not experienced neglect or abuse are horrified by it. You and your brother grew up in that situation. To you it is normal. To others it inspires a reaction of disgust and "why on earth did any of the adults around them not protect them?".

It's common for children in abusive families to have very different experiences of abuse. One might be targeted much more than the others (scape goat). Your brother hasn't had your life and from what he is saying there is much more to the abuse of him than you know.

In your shoes I would brace yourself. If your brother and your SIL have made the decision that their children don't spend time with your mum then it's possible that she was actually involved in the abuse and your brother knows this and is preventing it happening to the next generation.

You've grown up in this situation. As a child, to survive you've had to learn to read the emotions of the adults around you and prioritise managing their feelings to prevent the abuse. Many of your posts are about how sad you are for your mum. You should consider getting therapy as you should be the most important person in your life.

A famous line from “The Godfather” that might be worth repeating to your sister-in-law:

You never go against the family.

I’d be furious if anybody bad-mouthed my mum.
I don’t care who it is.

What a dumb post, read the thread ffs.

Then remind your mom that it’s SILs life and so who does she think she is? It’s not up to her to decide what they do.

Your brother and SIL have decided they don’t want to be exposed to the abuse anymore. Who could blame them?

Clearly you have no experience of mothers who enable abusive fathers then. I would not and do not back my mum (or dad) unconditionally, in fact I’ve told them they fundamentally failed me as parents. I empathise with the brother and SIL in this situation and they’re entirely within their rights to cut off the abusive father and his enabler. OP can handle the situation however she sees fit, but has no business guilt tripping her brother and SIL for their (entirely valid and sensible) choices. And I agree therapy would be a great help.

God I can’t bear this simpleton, Phil Mitchell way of thinking. Nobody owes unconditional loyalty to their family especially if they’re abusive! This is how abuse continues through generations. As for the mother feeling terrible about being told she’s a bad mum… yeah, sounds like she deserves it for not protecting her children.

I'm sorry you're in a very painful situation here (you've acknowledged that your DB and SIL have a point) but you have to also accept that this is an intractable situation where your mother wants to stay with her abusive husband and her son and DIL want to keep them at arm's length because they want to protect their kids.

They are right not to trust your mum because actually she has no real control here, her abusive DH does. Your mum has made her choice and just needs to accept its consequences: whether she (or you) agrees or not is immaterial.

Stick up for your mum!!!!!!

This argument is really between your brother and mum.

Your brothers wife will have been told everything that you brother believes about your mum and dad, then she will of also seen what she’s seen and heard what your mum said.

They went NC with dad and you seem that acceptable. Your dad put them in danger. Your mother by staying means there is always that link to your father, it makes sense that she is not allowed the grandchildren alone because who says she won’t have them around her husband.

Your brother because let’s not always blame women here either clearly also doesn’t trust that your father will be kept away so he has with his wife decided his/their children cannot see your mother or father. His wife couldn’t stop him if he wanted the children to see her so it’s a joint thing.

Don’t blame the sil alone this is a joint choice. Your brother believes as his told you, that your mother is a bad parent and granny maybe trust that people can behave differently to different people and that different people find different things considered acceptable or not.

for example You might not care that granny talks sometimes lovingly about grandpa, he might because it shows an abusive man in a nice light. Your mum might be sunshine and flowers to you, while she might offload into him.

You’ll both get different versions when apart and both have different tolerances.

They're absolutely definitely not worried that my mum is going to expose them to my dad whatsoever, just fyi. It's not about her doing that. They know she wouldn't.

They just can't stomach her anymore for putting up with him, which is something I just have to accept.

I'm not laying all the blame on SIL, but she's definitely pushing the narrative of no contact with my mum more than brother. I know because I have spoken to my brother about it. But he's putting his wife first, which I also understand.

There really are no winners in all of this. And like you say, I don't know what horrible things my mum does to my brother and SIL. However I do hear about things from both sides and it really does go both ways. My brother is very cruel to my mum sometimes.

My mum does very similar things to me, which annoy me too. Sometimes we compare notes. But I don't react the same way to it. Because she's my mum. My brother is a lot colder about it.

At the moment I'm spending a lot of time explaining to my mum that although I understand she's hurt, she's put up with this man and exposed us and SIL to him for many years and that most people can't understand or support this anymore. As sad as it is, sometimes people need to draw a line to protect themselves. She just doesn't understand that. She thinks it's cruel and she's such a good grandma and she has been there for them etc etc.

I just tell her to wait it out and I'm always here for her. What else can I do. But it's very sad.

When it comes up between brother, SIL and I. I try to show absolute understanding of their choice and at the same time I talk about how she's a victim in this too and it's not as straightforward as saying that she didn't protect her children. It wasn't easy for her either. She knows nothing but abuse and in fact, compared to how much she was abused and saw her mother being abused - her marriage and our childhoods were very good. This is obviously wrong but that's what she says.

So to all those who've called me a traitor towards my mum, it's not straight forward AT ALL.

Does SIL actually "hate" your mum?

Your DB and SIL seem to be on the same page, and it's not unreasonable that SIL is supporting her husband.

All of you agree that your DM is in an abusive relationship, you continue to discuss this with your mum and are not putting pressure on her to leave, but DB and SIL are saying they have had enough of listening to it, either DM does something to help herself or she shuts up and puts up.

I can see it from all angles, but I actually have a lot of sympathy with DB and SILs stance.

You and your brother grew up in an abusive home and your mum didn't leave to protect you. Your brother thinks that this makes her a bad parent and many people would agree with him. You don't, and that's your prerogative.

However, I don't think that your mum is in a position to criticise other people's parenting. I can totally see why this would be unacceptable to your brother and your SIL.

Why does your mum stay with your dad? Could she leave him if she wanted to? How did she deal with his abuse when you and your brother were children? Did she try to stand up to him and protect you both?

That’s the thing isn’t it. To her she’s done great because it was better than her childhood less abusive. But it doesn’t stop it still being shit and abusive.

Unless she can see that it’s not about being fair it’s that they are doing better by their children than she did by hers, she won’t win them around. It just another bad thing happening that’s not her fault in her mind.

She’s a victim of her upbringing completely, and she’s a victim to an abusive husband. But after that it’s her choices that are meaning she’s not being allowed to continue letting her son be a victim and to stop his wife and their children too become victims.

Someone has to stop the cycle, your mother either gets helps and it’s hard to leave all you’ve known when you truly believe it’s better than what you had so can’t be that bad but that is the problem seeing not as bad as good or ok. Or as your brother and his wife have done they remove themselves and their children from the cycle, rather than being just a little better they stop the flow down.

They are just spent. They've tried everything, you know ? He's even been abusive towards them. And my mum still lets it go. SIL has had enough, especially when she was placed in an unsafe situation herself by my father and my mum STILL won't leave. It's like, what else does he need to do for you to leave and prioritise your kids and grandkids safety?

Everyone has a line and it seems your DM has crossed it several times with SIL and probably your DB, too. Your DM can’t leave your father - fine but your SIL and DB do not need to accept it and “be kind” if it has had a severe negative impact on them.

Unfortunately, you are caught in the middle. However, if they have chosen to cut off your DM then they shouldn’t be engaging in any conversation with her or with you about her so maybe you will be less in the middle.

Why does your mum stay with your dad? Could she leave him if she wanted to? How did she deal with his abuse when you and your brother were children? Did she try to stand up to him and protect you both?

She makes up reasons to stay. Like, first it's because she can't leave because of money. He's told her he'll leave her with nothing on the street, homeless. He's also told her he will end her if she tries to take his money and divorce him. I must admit I'm worried that he will do this. So is my brother deep down.

She did stand up to him when we were kids. There were just many many fights and arguments. A lot of screaming and shouting. Daily. I don't ever remember them slowing down their arguing because of us. They'd just get carried away and not stop for hours and hours. Sometimes escalating into physical violence. He told her she was worthless, a piece of shit on a daily basis and that if she leaves, she will have nothing to eat and be homeless. So that was that.

So, your mum doesn't even acknowledge your father's abuse and thinks that her marriage and your childhoods were very good?

I can totally see why your brother and SIL don't want her around their children. She is denying that your father was abusive. That would be unacceptable for most people.

This whole horrible situation is being caused by a horrible abusive man and yet you are asking about how to change the behaviour of your mother and your sister in law. The irony of expecting all the women (including yourself) to adapt and adjust because of the actions of one awful man.

You are so deep in this that you are complicit with your mother to excuse the behaviour of your father and just accept it like she does. You’ve been conditioned do to this but your SIL can see it from the outside and doesn’t want to just tolerate him for the sake of keeping the peace. If she does then he is basically controlling you all and has free rein over you all - and all the grandchildren …

it isn’t your mother, or your sister in law or you. It’s him. He is the problem.

Why are you letting yourself be in the middle of this? Tell them that you will be longer listen to them slagging each other off.

@thepariscrimefiles she doesn't think it's ' that bad '.. compared to how she grew up, apparently we grew up spoilt and entitled. Her family was very poor. They went to bed hungry a lot. Her dad would beat all the kids and my grandma senseless most days apparently..

So she's like, you guys had it good compared to me ! So yes, she minimises it. She minimises his behaviour as well. And it's always ' yes but he's your dad '.. no one is perfect. Was it really that bad ? I always took care of you and loved you. My mum never helped me with anything - I did X Y Z for you. My mum never did that for me..

This is her narrative.

@Autumn38 yes you're absolutely right. It very fucked up.

And you enable this SIL behaviour by refusing to criticise SIL as you are scared of SIL falling out with you

🙄