To think that they could roll out mounjaro in less than 12 years?

[caffelattetogo]

I thought this was 12 months when I read it first - is it me or does 12 years seem like a long time to prescribe for all eligible patients? Particularly as we are told so many expensive medical problems are caused by obesity.

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/national/uk-today/24823250.nhs-mounjaro---will-eligible/

MJ has changed my life. I have PCOS with insulin resistance and my weight has been creeping up and up for years. I’ve tried all sorts of diets and exercise and they work in the short term but then I start to regain the weight regardless of what I’m eating, calorie expenditure or exercise.
Since July I’ve lost 3.5 stone. I actually feel in control of my body.
It really isn’t as simple as calories in vs calories out.

No, it’s not despair. It’s some sort of warped moral judgement. And no, I haven’t seen Wall E, but because I’m not a child I prefer to use research based evidence rather than cartoons to predict outcomes. Have a look at the post from@spinningisthebest for an idea of what this medication can do.

To be fair @Tutorpuzzle - that poster's words suggest they have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the drugs work.

They don't work without a healthy lifestyle to go alongside them - they don't just take the weight away while you eat 3000 cals a day of burgers and pudding, but their words seem to suggest they the drugs do that 'wall-e style'. So maybe that's where the judgement is coming from?

You’re right, of course, @FirstOfTheFirst . I haven’t even used them (I lost weight by exercising more…which also seems to infuriate some people!), but the blanket judgement, without any attempt to have any comprehension of what it’s like to be fat, very fat, for years and years, really gets on my wick.

Now I’m off to have a croissant…or two!

The only winners in this debate are the pharma companies and the food industry. One feeds you up ready for the other to slim you down.
Eli Lilly developed and manufacture Mounjaro a GLP-1 blocker. But look out for their competitor, Pfizer’s, new weight loss drug which blocks both GLP-1 and GIP hormones. It is currently in research trials.

This is one of the best explanations I’ve heard. Along with jealousy from people who can’t afford it.

I take it and don’t think it should be available on the NHS unless it’s an alternative to weight loss surgery.

If you’re going to talk about the drug at least get it right. It doesn’t block GLP it activates it 🙄

As I thought there’s no long term firm evidence as to how this medication affects people.

Yes I thought you were being snarky you cheeky little monkey.

It’s not the gotcha you thought though because I don’t care there’s no long term data yet. There’s too much money in it for them not to come up with something safe for me to spend my money on for the next 50 years.

Have we had them all yet? I think we are missing ‘I am a medical professional’

@HermoniePotter my understanding that these types of drugs have been used for many years under their initial approval for diabetes the weight loss approval is recent - there is a good summary here of their development as well as emerging other benefits www.nature.com/articles/s41392-024-01931-z

This is brilliant!

I was prescribed it by the Diabetes team in September, since then it has cost the NHS 2 x 5 min appointments and the cost of the medication.

It has saved the NHS the cost of daily insulin, daily metformin and probably 10 x 5 min weekly monitoring appointments as my sugar levels are completely under control and within normal range 100% time so they have not had to observe and guide me in amending insulin amounts.

In addition I've lost 3 stone, my cholesterol levels have improved preventing me needing to be prescribed Statins, my blood pressure has reduced preventing me needing BP medication.

Because my sugars are under control my Diabetic Retinopathy isn't progressing which reduces the number of eye tests and eye scans I need and also reduces me to yearly foot circulation checks instead of 6 monthly.

At last check my HbA1C level had reduced from 11% to 7.2% I'm being retested at the end of this month and if I'm below 6.5% then my diabetes will have gone into remission.

Yet I speak to so many diabetics and women with insulin resistant PCOS who are being told they can't be prescribed Mounjaro on the NHS. It's ridiculous.

There is also the issue production. Opening it up to everyone, aside from lack of clinical staff to deal with it, could lead to a lack of it being available to those that are are currently on it. I am honestly scared of shortages - I have finally found a drug that has helped me more than anything else. It is letting me lead a more normal life and my body is working somewhere near normal. We saw this with Ozempic - those in need of it couldn't get it due to those taking it solely for weight loss.

@caffelattetogo It’s hilarious isn’t it. It perfectly captures all the repetitive fuckery we see on these threads. I must give all the credit to @1clavdivs !

My personal favourite is ‘eat less and move more’. That one clearly works

My endocrine consultant has said that he is happy for me to be on this for life. And I presume a consultant knows more than the average mumsnet poster

I've been lurking in the background waiting to shout "HOUSE"!

These drugs are very effective at treating PCOs and it’s likely that of all the non diabetes causes of obesity this one will be treated under the NHS. It is common to be prescribed Metformin for PCOs and weight loss is a side effect.
In PCOs weight gain is not down to excess eating but due to insulin resistance. It is one of the complex endocrine disorders. Combined with poor eating habits it is easy to pile on weight, but extremely difficult to lose weight even with extreme calorie deficit. Essentially the way your body uses, stores and processes glucose is dysfunctional.
Fertility is affected so Metformin is often prescribed because it can kick start your reproductive function. Tirzepatide is just a newer generation of Metformin that is more effective.
Taking Mounjaro with PCOs will give quick effective results because most of the time women with PCOs will be on a calorie deficit diet.
I have secondary PCOs as a result of a pituitary problem. Now that I’m post menopausal my pituitary problem has gone into full remission, also my ovaries have shut down. I no longer suffer with the resulting insulin resistance so I don’t constantly crave carbs. Insulin resistance produces a rapid low sugar glucose after you eat which triggers the hunger centre in the brain. In addition glucose is cleared from your blood rapidly and stored as fat before you can use it, it is also difficult for your body to break down the fat stores.

Insulin resistance does have evolutionary advantages, fat storage was a survival mechanism when the early humans moved from sub Sahara into Northern Europe but it came with a price, increased heart disease. Unfortunately modern lifestyle with heated houses and a carb rich diet means insulin resistance lends itself to weight gain.

Most women with PCOs will fall into the overweight/obese category. It’s doesn’t cause over eating it just means that you store fat more easily from a normal diet.
Overeating to the point of morbid obesity is the result of behaviour and poor diet.

I can lose weight rapidly with a low carb diet and have no problem maintaining weight, however the spanner in the works is Anastrazole, I had breast cancer three years ago, which blocks oestrogen and I have found that weight loss is almost impossible. Most women taking it have reported rapid weight loss when they finish taking it. The other side effect is crippling joint and muscle pain alongside chronic fatigue. You may have survived the cancer but often the side effects of adjunctive treatment can be a problem.

In the future I can see the advantage of these drugs for people with underlying endocrine problems particularly those that predispose them to diabetes and heart disease but they are not the answer for hard core behavioural overeaters. They will always need a massive amount of support to retrain eating habits which are often set in stone from infancy. The food industry has a lot to answer for with these individuals and I strongly support a sugar tax from both a moral and professional point of view. The biggest changes we have seen in the last 30 years are the mammoth growth in the soft drinks/ energy drinks industry, the ready meals sector and of course fast food made worse by the ever growing Uber eats culture.

Cost isn't the only issue, nobody knows the long term effects. There's already anecdotal data that it has negative effects too so they really don't want those who don't have medical need for extreme weight loss to take the risk. You can always diet the normal way for free

They have been around since the 80s!

There's a difference between rolling it out to everyone and everyone who meets the clinical criteria. People who meet the clinical need shouldn't be waiting 12 years.

Show me a drug that doesn't have side effects.

What is the anecdotal data for the negative long term effects? Not sure which drug you take who's side effects are being a judgey bitch.

@justteanbiscuits

'judgey bitch' wow, someone has an opinion and you respond like this.

Do you call the GP a judgey bitch when they recommend a healthy diet and exercise?

“Side effects” as an obese person I know the side effects of my weight are Stroke, Heart Disease, Diabetes, increased risk of some cancers, joint pain etc. These are proven risks, I would sooner reduce my chances if those, rather than some “mythical” Mounjaro risks.

In my life have done Weightwatchers, Slimming World, Rosemary Conley, Lighter Life, Cambridge Diet, 5:2, Atkins, Blood Type, Calorie Counting, 10,000 steps, Couch to 5k, Personal Trainer, swimming etc etc etc… so please do not tell me I haven’t tried.

These injections are the first time I have no cravings, I’m not hungry, I’m not food obsessed .. I feel calm and in control. I had no booze over Christmas as I didn’t want any, or sweets, chocolates .. or much else to be honest.

I pay for the jabs myself … I have no idea why some people are so pissed of about them, but frankly I don’t care.

This summer I’ll go on holiday and actually fit in the Plane seat, I won’t feel worried or ashamed that the seatbelt won’t fit, or that I’m spilling into the next seat.

The kind of people who have issue with the jabs are the kind that complain that they are sat next to a fat person on the plane.