To think that they could roll out mounjaro in less than 12 years?

[caffelattetogo]

I thought this was 12 months when I read it first - is it me or does 12 years seem like a long time to prescribe for all eligible patients? Particularly as we are told so many expensive medical problems are caused by obesity.

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/national/uk-today/24823250.nhs-mounjaro---will-eligible/

I’m sure there are many examples of overweight people in the past however obesity is on the rise
Heres a comparison with the 1960s for example
There were far less obese people

Pg 2

Pg 3

it’s just one of many

Yep @SilenceInside mentioned that.
If you read my post I was asking the question
You seem to think I am attacking people here, I’m not informed enough on the drug to feel that I can comment
Read my posts please, I’m just questioning

Wasn’t aware this post was discussing aspirin I thought it was about Mounjaro.

I am not sure why people are upset me mentioning a fact 😫

Well good for you

You are utterly demonstrating my point - you find it impossible to understand how people might be different from you. Just a long post going on about how you cook from scratch.

No empathy, no imagination.

@Hippopotas it’s because you are highlighting a single suspected adverse reaction event associated with Mounjaro, in a rather sensationalist way, as if this is unique to that drug. In reality, most if not all drugs have potentially serious or fatal side effects, some of which are very well known and documented. But you don’t see people campaigning to ban aspirin, codeine, chemotherapy, HRT etc.

People who are prescribed Mounjaro are able to weigh the potential risks (which by law will have been highlighted to them) versus benefits to their overall health. Same as with all other drugs.

I was born in 1964 and with regard to “fat” people yes there were overweight people but not the number of morbidly obese people you see today. Someone with a BMI of over 40 would turn heads because they were unusual to see. Maybe they all stayed at home?
We walked everywhere, and in all weathers, central heating wasn’t common so our energy requirements were higher. Maybe that’s why obesity in my age group,60+, has risen because we haven’t adjusted our diet to compensate for warm houses and cars.

But we didn’t eat huge meals, the 70s was a time of austerity, we were quite well off but my mum would make a Sunday joint last until Tuesday. We didn’t have snacks, if we were hungry there was fruit and that was all.
We always knew when visitors were coming because biscuits would appear in the cupboard. DM was a brilliant baker but again, only if visitors were due.

DH & I rarely eat more than one course and now we are retired we only eat breakfast and evening meal. Neither of us can manage 3 meals a day. We aren’t as active as we were. My food bill doubles when DS is home from uni.

I find it worrying that so many teenagers are obese. As an HCP it has been noticeable just how weight is spiraling. My dental chair has a max limit of 20st then it won’t tip back. The sensor detects the weight and prevents it from tipping. My new chair is also noticeably wider than the old one that was 20yrs old. Our GP waiting room has bariatric chairs due to patients getting stuck in the normal sized ones and ambulance services are having to invest in more and more bariatric ambulances with weight reinforcement and equipment for bigger patients. They have also introduced bigger MRI scanners to accommodate the increase in larger patients. All this is adding to the costs of treating obese patients.
I am not a skinny waif and 30 years ago I would have considered myself “fat” but in a room of people I’m pretty average. Having typed all that out I acknowledge that I may become part of the problem so I’m committed to improving my health longterm and will be losing weight this year.

Ok I’m sorry that you find my posts tedious and lacking empathy.
I’ve spent my working life in healthcare and the one thing I have learned is that patients will look to blame anyone for their state of health ( I am referring to preventable conditions) and that you can spend a lot of time educating them and supporting them only to find that they have completely ignored you.

I’m retired now so I no longer have to listen to the endless excuses and explanations of why the simple remedies I’ve suggested in a polite and appropriate way are not doable because they don’t have the time in their busy schedule to look after their health. They have the time to spend hours on the makeup, hair and nails but 15 mins a day on their mouths is just not doable. They are not prepared to change their diet to prevent the ongoing damage to their teeth and they expect me to fix it in the future because I can. Then moan about the cost.

Obesity is preventable but we need to start at an early age. There are multiple HCP banging their heads against walls all over the NHS having spent huge amounts of time with patients who are unwilling to take advice at a stage when prevention is possible. Ultimately the NHS is to blame because of its umbrella nature in the past. Patients understand one thing and that regardless of their actions they expect the NHS to fix it. We can’t do that anymore and HCPs are having to spell it out. Patients aren’t happy with the new tell it how you see it attitude and the whole system is on its knees.

So yes I agree I lost my empathy sometime before the pandemic which is why I left the NHS. I do a small amount of private work now where patients value your time and advice because they are paying good money for it.

I have a large dent in my forehead from repetitively banging my head against the wall.

There are some endocrine conditions that make weight loss complicated but ultimately weight is dependent primarily on how much you eat and what types of foods you eat. PCOs is one of these and is commonly treated with GLP-1 drugs. They are not given primarily to aid weight loss but to treat the associated problems with PCOs. Weight loss is a welcome side effect. I used to take Metformin when I was trying to get pregnant. I lost weight and fell pregnant. The weight loss was a bonus. I have a lot of empathy for women who struggle with endocrine problems they can have a lifelong affect. I’m overweight but I love my food. I know why I’m overweight and I’m currently addressing it.

One of the wonderful outcomes of the recession and cost of living crisis is that food manufacturers have made everything smaller so maybe the tide is turning. If you check the chocolate shelf most items are smaller so lower in calories. The bakery items have all shrunk and are twice the price. Now all we need is lower prices on the healthy stuff.

@Angrymum22 completely agree and interesting to hear the frustrations in the health care role. No accountability, denial and defensiveness. Very much lol

I'm guessing @Gatecrashermum is one of those who fails to listen or take advice.

Pressed send too quick ....not lol

Meant to say...very much like my DM who refused to accept smoking was bad for her, didn't take or respond to any help to stop and now looking for a magic cure for lung damage.

Mad that the NHS continues to do the same thing for years that clearly is ineffective. If telling people to eat less and move more worked, then it would be good advice. People know this basic fact, yet what people clearly struggle with is implementing that in their daily lives. Advice about how to do that effectively would be a starting point. Or just recognising the situations that mean people fail to implement the obvious advice.

It's disturbing to hear how much contempt and hatred there is towards patients from an apparent HCP.

I actually know how to cook from scratch and love doing it. Used to do it all the time. Disability now prevents me, sadly. I manage some simple stuff on a good day. I'm currently on a diet and trying to eat as well as possible.

In my experience people don't quite believe that fatigue and pain can prevent you from cooking and I get lots of patronising suggestions like just make an omelette.

I know there are also people who have never cooked, have never been cooked for and it all seems overwhelming.

Then the people working so many jobs to keep their heads above water they don't have the time or energy.

I wasn't talking about people refusing to brush their teeth - i know there are lots of people out there who refuse to do what's best for them and expect the state somehow to fix it for them.

All I was saying is there's a lot of judgement behind statements like "just cook everything from scratch" and lo and behold...looks like i was right.

The NHS tier 1 weight loss support really isn’t worth the paper the referral is written on. I asked for a referral and so far have been given two booklets about ‘healthy eating’ including telling me to eat 5 portions of fruit and veg per day and to get ‘low fat’ options wherever possible. I was asked to fill in a food diary but not to bother weighing anything or calorie counting as it’s too easy to get hung up on that. I go back for appts every 4 weeks and they don’t want to see the food diary as ‘that’s for you [me]’ and get weighed and I’m on my way.

I have learned nothing and it is zero support. I told them I’d decided to start MJ and their response was ‘ok, let us know how it goes’.

Sounds very generic advice they give and undoubtedly no resources to give an individualised plan.

So what is the point of it? A waste of everyone’s time. And evidently people who don’t lose weight despite accessing the ‘support’ are judged as having ‘no accountability’ ‘being in denial’ and ‘defensive’.

@westernlights surely then, you are applauding anyone going on Mounjaro - all of whom are determined to improve their health, eat healthily and reverse bad habits? and the vast majority of whom are paying for it themselves?

Do you know the number of fallacies you have posted on this thread? Here’s a helpful list :

• people will regain the weight if they stop - red herring
• loose skin - red herring
• NHS will need to fund tummy tucks - straw man argument/ slippery slope
• Doesn’t help with the causes of obesity or with binge eating disorders - invincible ignorance
• Gatecrashermum must be one of the people who never listen to HCP advice - ad hominem attack (also ecological fallacy)
• it’s the same as your smoking relative - false analogy/ argument from anecdote
• Fat people who opt for Mounjaro are in denial, take no accountability - oversimplification
• with a sprinkle of tone policing and appeal to authority for good measure.

Are you a Schopenhauer fan by any chance? Because your posts read like an applied exercise of The art of always being right.

Sums me up well

It's a forum...opinions will always differ. It's such a sensitive and emotive topic that understandably people will have strong views and that fair enough.

I appreciate the time you've taken to go through the posts though.

You’re welcome.

It’s one thing to have strong views, and quite another thing to have views that don’t withstand the test of logic. judging by your posts, your emotions are clouding your ability to form rational views.

Oh well..

Your list is admirable but after 35+ years working in health care people rarely change behaviour unless it is done in their teens or twenties.
We only ever applaud the success stories and rarely see the failures. I have had the privilege of looking after some patients for decades. The ones who have had gastric bands have achieved their goals but gradually slip back into old habits and learn new eating habits that gratify the need for the sugar high. I see one patients whose gastric balloon caused serious damage and they have now had a by pass. A very extreme and major op. It has worked but it was a very risky op to go through. WLI didn’t work for them so further surgery was their only option.
I really hope that WLI work for people but realistically they will be taking them for life.
It isn’t a magic weight loss method, it just suppresses the appetite and although it has been around for a while it was designed for patients with a specific health condition. They discovered that weight loss was a side effect.
I would like to see longterm data before using it.
I have been taking an endocrine drug since my 20s. I was prescribed it when it was first introduced as part of the first therauputic trials. One of the side effects was rapid weight loss as a result of appetite suppression but some of the other side effects meant that I would have periods of time not taking it. It also became far less effective as an appetite suppressant long term because they reduced the dose. The therapeutic dose is a fraction of the dose I first took to reduce side effects.
Now I have regular echocardiograms to check for heart valve damage. After 20yrs on the market it was seen to cause heart valve damage in high dose. They don’t know whether longterm use causes problems yet. Fortunately it has not been seen in patients who took a low dose like me, but they continue to screen me.

Some drugs cause damage after years of use.

@Angrymum22 , no the drugs do not just suppress appetite. If you want to learn about how they work, just have a quick Google.

“Some drugs cause damage after years of use.” So does morbid obesity.