To want to take down Christmas decorations on 31stDec

[ThatCyanJoker]

We’ve had tree and Christmas decorations up since early December. I’m so ready to take them down now and get the house back to normal, but DH says it’s way too early and how could I think that was usual. Out of interest, do you keep your tree etc until 6 January?

Are you seriously suggesting that it's the law that the Xmas decorations need to stay up.until epiphany?

No. I'm saying legally the CofE remains the established denomination. Hence the requirement for daily acts of worship in schools, the head of state also being the head of the church etc. And that makes the country officially Christian. Regardless of daily practice.

That is what makes it appropriate for council provided Christmas decorations to remain in place for the duration of the festival. It isn't a legal requirement (although it will be when I'm a petty unelected dictator, even more so because it seems to annoy people so much).

No. I'm saying legally the CofE remains the established denomination

I’m in Scotland. CofE utterly irrelevant. And even in England they are a minority body which has no influence over when people remove their festive ornaments.

The Cof E has what to do with Scotland, Wales or NI?
And who cares anyway? It's an irrelevance

Fair enough. Happy for it to remain irrelevant to you. Doesn't stop me being confident in my opinion that decorations should stay up until 12th night. Because that's the official end of Christmas.

Everything has been taken down today. Finally the place looks lovely and tidy!

Your opinion is irrelevant to anyone else, and there's still no official end to Christmas.
What the CofE thinks is the official end of Christmas has no bearing in anything, even if they have a legal role in England. Their opinions do not affect anyone else or matter at all.

Exactly this.
Whether people choose to follow Christianity or not, it's the basis of Christmas and Christianity is the official religion of the UK. Why do you think the Archbishop of Canterbury crowns the monarch and the coronation takes place in a cathedral and the monarch is announced with holy oil? If you watched Charles' coronation you would have seen all the religious aspects of the coronation, did it not occur to you why that was?
Maybe some people need to study a bit of UK history?

It's not the basis of Christmas though. And the monarch is as irrelevant as the archbish.
We know why there are religious aspects to the coronation, it's all tradition and pomp. But it doesn't mean anything.

And absolutely none of it is relevant to an "official end to Christmas"

I'm fine with my opinion being irrelevant to anyone else. It doesn't change it!

I took mine down last night - 2nd Jan. Mainly because the cleaner came today and I wanted her to be able to clean! Lucky me, i know.

That said, I do think it’s part of the reason not to put them up so early, if we’re sick of the sight of them by New Year’s Day

Of course Christianity is the basis of Christmas, it celebrates the birth of Jesus. Yes, there was some kind of pagan festival around the winter solstice but for the past 2000 years Christmas has been about the birth of Jesus above all else.
That's why plenty people in other parts of the world and in the UK who have different faiths don't celebrate Christmas because it is associated with Christianity.
If it was just about Santa then the religious aspect wouldn't matter to them.
You may think the monarch is irrelevant but we still live in a monarchy in the UK where the monarch is head of the church of England, the primary religion of this country.
People can of course do what they like with their decorations, but it's quite silly to deny there's a religious origin to it.

Oh bless your little heart. Nope to all of that.

Lots of people in other faiths and cultures celebrate Christmas, because it's now a secular festival. There are many many cultures with a similar myth of a chosen child and a Virgin and all that rot, and early Christians merely bolted on a few of their stories onto very well established mid winter festivals. It's not even the right month for the supposed birth if jesus!

Christianity isn't the origin of the festival, they merely coopted it and now it's been un co-opted.

Meanwhile I find myself agreeing with you both @NotThisOldChestnutAgain and @DowntonCrabbie 🤣

I'd be interested to hear when you think it became solely a secular festival. I'm 60 and it certainly wasn't a secular festival in my childhood, even though I grew up in an atheist family we knew the meaning of Christmas. My grandchild is at primary school( not a church school) and they have a nativity every year and the school choir sing carols which are all about the birth of Jesus, so still not secular.
Even though I don't believe in god I love the nine lessons and carols and if it fits in with my day I like to go to that on Christmas eve at my local cathedral, it is really a wonderful experience with thousands singing and the organ playing.
Those are just a few examples but they do show that the religious aspect is still extremely important in celebrating Christmas.
It's an interesting debate on both sides so you really don't need to be quite so patronising.

Not solely, but primarily. And overwhelmingly.

The carols, the nativity... people do it for the tradition, because it's nice. The music is good, but it's got nothing to do with jesus for the vast majority.

I’m assuming your grandchild is also learning about other religions?

My C of E church keeps theirs up until Candlemas on 2nd February 🤷

So if people really wanted to be pedantic they should probably be having gem up a lot longer than 6th Jan

Well exactly. Even the CofE can't decide when Christmas officially ends. Probably because there's no official end of Christmas 🤣

I presume so, but certainly at Christmas it's all about Jesus and the Nativity and the choir sings traditional Christmas carols. There is a boy in her class who is Sikh or Hindu and when they had to prepare a speech about a subject they were interested in he talked about his religion and culture, and they must learn about Divali because I went to a school grandparents craft morning with her around the beginning of November and we were making things to do with Bonfire night and Divali.
But the church pastor does go to the school quite often to talk about various things and there was a church service at which the school choir sung and did readings about the Christmas story. She does go to a very predominantly white British school though, of the approximately 450 pupils there are only a handful who aren't, eg in her year of 60 throughout her time at school ( now year 6) there has only been one boy who isn't white British.

There are two traditional end points! But either way <5th Jan is early.

If you want to get technical about it Epiphany is still the end of Christmas but many churches (and people) keep decorations up to celebrate Epiphany as well which ends at Candlemas. So there are two traditional end points to Christmas decorating but 5th Jan is still the official end of Christmas.

Official for whom?

Christmastide ends on 2nd February according to many, including some Catholics and Anglo-Catholics (my C of E church is Anglo-Catholic)

Other Catholics and other sects of Christianity see Christmastide as the 12 days after Christmastide and including epiphany.

Some also use octaves which means Christmastide ends for them on 1st January with the solemnity of our virgin mother.

I've even heard some say that it ends on 13th January. I can't remember the reasoning but I'm sure it's just as justified as anyone else's.

To me, all these different dates even within churches this just strengthens the argument that it's really personal choice.

DappledThings gets very het up about this topic.

Not at all. Although I have been accused of such. I am cheerfully confident in my opinion and remain amused by how many people it seems to annoy.

Interesting points re. other octaves. The extension of festive decorations therefore to Candlemas and other dates also reasonable. None of which makes anything before 5 January anything other than early.

I shall continue to be accused of being angry about it. I remain entirely not angry but I'm sure that won't prevent the accusation.

It's a topic that seems to invite high levels of defensiveness.

I would just like to say I am neither defensive nor accusing you of anger. Nor am I angry myself. If there's past issues I am unaware of them I would to stay well out of them 😆