To feel that many men are totally unprepared and unsuited to domesticity?

[JFDIYOLO]

So many instances shared on Mumsnet of grown men behaving like adolescents.

Spending hours gaming, incapable of regulating their emotions, violent outbursts, dick-led decisions, expecting Mummy 2.0 from their wives, utterly lacking in empathy and care during pregnancy, labour, newborn baby & toddler years, father fails ...

But why is this?

Was it always so, or do we just hear way more now from women who are no longer prepared to put up with it and ready to discuss and share advice?

Should there be some kind of exam, a screening process before they can proceed to the next level of In A Relationship?

That pretty much classes every comment on every thread as pointless.

Except the fact that it's well researched that men as a class do far far less around the home than women as a class. Anecdotal evidence from a pp's son doesn't change that fact. The question is why and why women put up with it.

There's no physical reason why men can't do housework – but they're generally not that interested in it, and if given the opportunity, will happily swerve it.

This recent insistence that men and women are the same is deeply misguided. Just because you want something to be so, doesn't mean it is. Just look at the real world. Who tends to be driving the car on a Sunday? Who tends to have Pinterest boards of home decor? Who tends to be putting up shelves? Who tends to be cooing over the new baby?

Mothers doing everything fir them is the problem. Fortunately my MIL didn't and raised a fully functioning adult.

I’m married to a man who has a career and is perfectly capable and willing to do anything to do with the house and family. (his mother brought him up properly). He can cook, shop, laundry etc. He does them because he’s an adult and a part of a family.

We have made sure that DD and DS can also function as adults.
This is not unusual.

It helps so much to have good role models. My df was great, my gf was great. Dh had a lot to live up to.

Living in shared houses in university was an eye opener too. But I think my childhood models inoculated me; I didn’t think someone who couldn’t look after themselves was adorable (some women are drawn to that), it was a turn off to me.

Nowadays the housing crisis has meant too many people live at home without going through that fending for yourself phase that’s so important.

My dm taught us to give careful consideration to whether a man was husband material or a fling, and not to confuse the two.
In her day sexual abstinence was more important because the consequences for falling pregnant could be devastating, not least if you ended up locked into marriage with a bad one.
She highly approved of our generation living together first, and made it clear we were always welcome home, and warned us to be aware that it wasn’t foolproof because men change after marriage. The fact that many couples can’t afford single accomodation is locking them into relationships like previous generations got locked into marriage.

Well if you say it, it must be true.

Exactly - it’s down to their upbringing. Too many parents treat sons differently and then wonder why he is useless.

I have no interest in housework or cooing over babies and am definitely a woman. Dh doesn't either. We pay a cleaner and get on with the stuff that needs doing because that's life isn't it?

My friends DH is like this, he does fuck all about the house (although is a great Dad and provider). She grew up as the oldest sibling and had to wear the mother hat from a young age, learning typical mothering/domestic skills too early on. I think as a coping strategy she perfected these skills to navigate some sadness in childhood. It's carried through to her adult life, and she is always put upon for all the chores as well as having a demanding job, which she keeps on accepting more and more responsibility at.

My point being, many women will react the same because of this type of childhood. Or perhaps they will take on men as a project to fix them. Perhaps they learnt to be people pleasers, perhaps they can't say no etc... unfortunately all these different types of "scarred" women tend to fall for these more helpless baby bird men. 🐦

It's a complete generalisation but men are often raised (and potentially have a genetic code) to put themselves first so they will often view things important to them above things that benefit the household or their wife/kids. Some men struggle with empathy so do not relate to their partner being ill/in pain and struggle to care above their own needs. Women are often raised to care for others and put others needs above their own (I remember reading somewhere that teaching staff are significantly more likely to make girls apologise/show remorse for their actions than they are boys) and most women have a nurturing gene as part of the preservation of life.

People will say not all men and yes that's true , upbringing and whether they have lived independently will factor but I would say those men (inthe uk at least) are the exception not the rule. Ditto women.

Society use to work with this to some extent with women in caregiver role and men the provider. But nowadays women are expected to/want to/have to provide too but more often than not find themselves in the position of doing everything- the job, bulk of housework, childcare, mental load. And why ? Because they care more and put their needs below others.

That's a really excellent point. Its not affordable to live alone so many are rushing to choose inappropriate partners to live with.

And what would you do if he left you, or if one day you wanted to leave him?

I put it to you that it is unwise to put all your eggs in one basket.

As evidenced by numerous threads on here every day.

It’s poor parenting that men aren’t raised to expect to do housework and childcare nothing to do with genetics.
Unfortunately from reading different Mn threads some families are continuing with this inequality.

I hope you’re not raising your DS’s to be so useless?

I think it goes beyond that. These men seem to actually not care about their partners at all.
I have a dh and brothers who were all brought up in a 'traditional' family and as boys, had no expectations of housework. Yet, they manage fine because how their wife feels matters to them.
They don't want to see their wife exhausted and miserable when they could do stuff too.
Every one of my friends partners is the same. And they also all seem to love their kids and want to do things with them which highlights another trait of these men that the op is talking about. They don't seem to care about their kids either.

Nowadays the housing crisis has meant too many people live at home without going through that fending for yourself phase that’s so important.

Yup. I wouldn't move in with someone who did not live alone before, shared house etc is fine.

I am always slightly 😳 when I see people saying "we are buying house together and moving together, we still live with our parents". What a leap of faith in there! For both sides

So it's women's fault?

I certainly grew up seeing mum running about doing everything at home while my dad did what he wanted and I think that's the same for a lot of my generation. My DH is much better than my dad but I can still tell he feels more of an inclination than me to 'put his feet up' and is less given to noticing stuff needs to be done, or acting when he does.

I hope you’re not replicating the same behaviours in your DC’s?

Some men are also overly obsessive about keeping the house clean. Whilst this might sound great in comparison to a bloke that does no cleaning, it can be really detrimental when partners or children are nervous about doing everyday house things like taking a shower or making a cup of tea.

I THOUGHT my partner was well-trained when we moved in together. I then came to realise he has a deep seated traditional view of 'womens work' having been mollycoddled by his mum. I think the way boys are raised to respect everyone, not just women and be team players in all aspects of their life is key.

I have had to work hard to change my partner's view and to prevent and curtail learned uselessness. If he asks where something is that I know literally staring him in the face, I just say 'oh well, we must have run out of it'. It is still work in progress, the other day- while I am cleaning the kitchen having just churned out the latest round of Christmas food. He is standing in front of the open fridge, asking me what is in the fridge......and if the mango right in front of him is ripe....apparently 'just poke it and see' is a sarcastic response.

My son shows my partner how to top-up dishwasher salt, where the specific cleaners are for things, how to use the oven properly, clean the coffee machine, collapse the airer, how to cook pasta properly. My son is 14 and attends a special school, my partner is a 50 something man with apparently 'a very important job'. I want my son to be an equal team member with a partner, of whatever gender he chooses for a relationship in the future. My son is very helpful and caring and seems to have retained these qualities even as a teenager. Let's hope I am releasing one decent man out into the wild for one of your young people!

Of course not all men are like that. That's a given. But it's no good saying MN is skewed - every survey always shows that women are still carrying way more of the domestic load, even if both partners work full time.

I expect there is a genetic element to some extent, but decent, men who aren't selfish, lazy or misogynist are more than capable of overriding that and doing their bit. I think women often fool themselves into ignoring red flags before marriage, or hope their lazy partner will magically reform omce kids arrive.

It’s nature, the way they are wired by nature. Men are wired to provide and women are wired to nurture