AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

I don't think she really is. Most people are indifferent but I think if pushed would probably see no harm in the policy.
Very few are opposed on ideological ground. The main opponents are those impacted by it personally.

Don't worry, I'm not panicking. My children go to a fantastic state primary, this policy doesn't affect me at all.

But as a school governor, i recognise this policy is inherently flawed as it lacks detail, focus and measurable outcomes.

In real terms our school is already worse off than when labour came into power, the teacher pay rises were only partly funded by the government and the NI increase not at all, we have had to fund these by not replacing a couple of TA's who retired. Who knows if or when or how much extra funding we will see from this policy, but currently labour has made our school worse rather than better.

This is a v fair summary imo.

Me and DH are “middle class parents in good professional jobs”. We had to send DS private due to SEN (autism). I am disgusted by the VAT policy, despite the fact that DS is now adult. BP is of course exaggerating the level of support for this policy.

State schools are going to get worse. Some private schools are going to close or get worse. Some will just plug the lost students with international students.

Nobody wins.

BP is exaggerating the amount of money that’s going to be raised. She’s acting like it’s hundreds of billions and the fairy godmother is coming to magic state schools better. In reality, the govt will have to pay a lot of capex related VAT back to schools (eg Eton 5 million quid) and the proposals propose spending the money raised (very little, certainly at the start) many times over, like it’s a bottomless pit of cash.

And the very uncomfortable reality for many is that their teens simply can’t be arsed with studying - no matter which sector they are in.

But never mind facts, let’s just pretend everyone from private school is an evil cunt.

As regards the private school fees, I would say that the majority of the population are pretty ambivalent to this policy. If pressed, the majority would be in favour but it really isn't the top priority for most people
It will be when it is extended, as is only logical
Once the policy is bedded-in then they can start applying it to other educational charges such as after-school clubs, University fees, etc. I presume that you are fine with that?

Gosh! That’s quite extraordinary! I would say most of the people I know don’t support it at all. Some benefitted from
Private schools, some have children there, others just recognise it for what it is, the politics of envy.

• those with deep pockets won't struggle to pay, but the squeezed middle will

I dont understand this argument tbh plus the squeezed middle are already priced out.

• parents made the choice to send their child to private school without knowing this was coming, there should have been a grace period where children couod finish their current schooling level without paying the VAT.

This has been mooted for a long time.

This is my issue. Raising more money fine - but it won’t be invested back into state.

You don’t think that any state school parents are “using their money to help their kids trample over the backs of everyone else's kids in the scramble for the best university places and jobs”? Many spend a fortune on tuition to access selective schools. Some (including Labour politicians) spend a fortune on houses in great catchments. The ridiculous thing is that, not only are these people not paying a penny more tax, they are using state resources. I’m not convinced that taxing school fees to fund school breakfasts for multi millionaires improves inequality.

Most middle class people use state schools so not surprised they support the policy.

I never understand this cronyism stuff and wonder whether it applies to very high profile schools only. My DS (adult) went private due to ASD. We don’t have any cronies to give him a job. He has a little bunch of friends who are students. We have some mum and dad friends from interacting with them over the school years. But no cronies? Where are the buggers? I should like them to employ my DS!

We are mc as are our friends and we all support it. Even those with children at private schools.

State schools are undersubscribed where I live and will welcome more children with open arms. Yes I realise it's patchy.

I don't think it's spiteful. The government is trying to make a fairer society.

Some of the arguments beggar belief. Especially the 'sacrifices' one. If making sacrifices means you can afford to send children to private schools that's a gigantic amount of unnecessary expenditure in the first place.

This is definitely a concern in our area which has grammers. The grammers are mainly situated in affluent areas, but children from our village who passed usually still got a place as a number of children in those areas went private. Fewer are now going private and more to grammer, so children from our very mixed income village will struggle much more to get a place. If my daughter doesn't get in, we will likely pay for private as the state comps near us have significant issues with behaviour and bullying, so won't really affect us, but will definitely affect my daughters friends who are bright but couldn't afford private, perpetuating a cycle of generational poverty which some seem to be stuck in.

Not at all. I went to private school myself. Quite happy to send my DD to the local non selective state schools before she went to Oxford. The cash we saved allowed us to be mortgage free before we were 40.

I think the vast majority of people feel that they have no real skin in the game and are much more interested in policies that make more a difference to them.

I guess in the posh south east that you have access to fantastic state schools. What about those of us in ordinary towns outside the SE? Our comp is rubbish here. My friend ran a programme at our comp offering extra help to struggling teens and asked them to do a bit of homework as part of it. Apparently this was “unreasonable” and “bullying”. My friend quit.

I don’t understand if she is trying to blame private schools for bad state schools? Is that like trying to blame bupa for the state of the nhs?

also, is she saying current parents aren’t good enough? Needs some pushy middle class parents to come and throw their weight around with teachers and suddenly they are all going to be brilliant? Sounds pretty insulting to everyone involved

I genuinely don't know the answer to this. Is Labour going to require private tutors to charge VAT? That seems only fair. People who can afford private tutors are buying their children a big advantage in much the same way as those who pay for their children to go to private schools.

And was this a nice area, or was it run down? Because a state school in one isn’t the same as a state school in another, is it.

Hahahaha this is very funny. No, Labour won’t do this because plenty of their supporters are tutoring for 11+ / grammars / entrance exams to fantastic state schools. And then pretending they are common salt of the earth people for using state schools.

@cantkeepawayforever I agree with you. Parents have a variety of different reasons for sending their children to private schools.

Some wouldn't send their children to state schools on principle, however good they were. That may be the norm in boarding schools, I don't know. But I'm not convinced that it is for day schools.

My husband and I both attended state schools and we expected that our children would do the same. Our children attended a state primary but I didn't think that either of the two available state secondary options would suit my children.

As it was we were able to pick the school that we thought would suit them best. Fortunately they both received scholarships, which meant that they were affordable (this was in the days when scholarships were worth more than a token amount).

Incidentally our nearest school, which was seen as a school to avoid when we were first looking at it about 15 years Hi , is not

Less than 30% achieved 5 good GCSEs including maths and English in our area. She was the first to get a place at Oxbridge. Never needed tutoring either.

I have found that only parents with DC at private schools ever bring it up. Everyone who chose a state school seems in favour. Given only 7% of families choose private schools, I think this is a minority issue.

Sorry. Hit post by mistake.

Last para should have said

Incidentally our nearest school, which was seen as a school to avoid when we were first looking at it about 15 years ago, has improved enormously under new management and if we were looking at it now might well choose it.

I don't think she really is. Most people are indifferent but I think if pushed would probably see no harm in the policy.
Very few are opposed on ideological ground. The main opponents are those impacted by it personally.

Exactly