AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

No, Labour won’t do this because plenty of their supporters are tutoring for 11+ / grammars / entrance exams to fantastic state schools. And then pretending they are common salt of the earth people for using state schools.

Lots of people in private use tutors and plenty chose private preps to prep for secondary grammars though

That's certainly what I'm assuming. There was mention upthread of VAT being charged on music lessons. Is this just music lessons arranged through a private school, or is it all music lessons arranged as extracurricular activities?

Of course, the Labour government (which I voted for, on the grounds that the Tories were even worse) has commissioned a report from an academic who thinks schools shouldn't take children to museums and art galleries because they need to concentrate on things which are relevant to the children's lives, e.g. visiting a football club. They are also removing funding from a scheme which paid for Latin teaching in state schools. Disappointing all round. I thought education was about opening minds and expanding horizons.

It would be nice to think that any money this VAT change does raise would be used to get more state school pupils studying modern languages, art, drama and music, but I'm not holding my breath on that.

There are plenty of those in the state system complaining that our nearest selective grammar catchment area has reduced by around 20% over the last couple of years. I’m not sure if it’s twigged that those places are now being taken by those who would otherwise have used private secondary.

What do you particularly like about it?

I'm not militantly opposed, but it seems a flawed policy from lots of angles.

Retains private education but makes it more economically elitist.

Is a less-progressive way of funding state education than general taxation would be.

Fairly unclear tax implications because of unknown response from parents.

Gives the greatest tax break to the schools with the biggest capital spending programmes (usually the richest/most expensive), by making input VAT reclaimable.

Disrupts some children's education mid-year (rather than between years).

Distracts from more useful stuff Labour could/should have prioritised in its crucial first few announcements. (Does nothing for growth, for example, and is a fairly niche issue).

Well, for consistency, they should all be paying VAT on the tuition too, shouldn't they?

Very few music teachers & drama clubs would generate enough income to require VAT registration.

There are plenty of those in the state system complaining that our nearest selective grammar catchment area has reduced by around 20% over the last couple of years. I’m not sure if it’s twigged that those places are now being taken by those who would otherwise have used private secondary.

So all the increase is because of people rejecting private secondary?

Again though, that's going to be a relatively small number in naice areas affected. 90% of the country won't notice a difference.

Well, for consistency, they should all be paying VAT on the tuition too, shouldn't they?

You have to earn a lot to pay VAT though? You do understand that? My DCs cello teacher is retired & only does a few hours tuition a week.

I don’t a feeling they aren’t going to raise much money. Also private school parents pay for state schools out of their tax and then do everyone else a favour by not using it. I’m all for that.

Plus you will just see house prices increase around good state schools or in grammar catchments. Thats not so great for people who don’t have much choice. Plus this will just push out people who were on the edge but making it work, private schools will just become more elitist not less. It’s a pointless policy imo.

Plus plenty of teachers do tuition on the side, cash in hand…

Plus you will just see house prices increase around good state schools or in grammar catchments.

Are those grammars very undersubscribed? How come it’s cheap to live in the catchment now?

OK, you're probably right. The VAT threshold is £90,000, which is a lot higher than I remembered.

My point stands, though. There are so many ways affluent parents can pay to improve their children's life chances. Only one of them is affected by this VAT change.

Happy enough to pay VAT. The priority should be sorting out the state school system which is broken and failing our kids. Sadly I don’t have any confidence that this will be sorted out in time for my own children’s education.

I wondered about that. Not exactly ethical.

My point stands, though. There are so many ways affluent parents can pay to improve their children's life chances. Only one of them is affected by this VAT change.

So the parents now priced out of private schools will still be ok

I think there’s some irony that Phillipson says her parents sent her to a catholic school as they wanted the best education for her.

Very happy to be corrected but I thought that she was raised by her mum alone? Mum founded wearside rape crisis, where Bridget later also worked.

Regarding music teachers teaching in private schools - surely they can only charge VAT if the school bills the parents for music lessons? If the visiting music teacher bills the parents directly and is under the VAT threshold, I fail to see how the lessons would attract VAT. Perhaps it is different in boarding schools or schools were the music teachers are directly employed by the school. It is a shame if some music teachers previously got employment status and the protections it affords, which may now be cancelled if the music lessons become unaffordable for parents with VAT? Music teachers are not exactly rolling in it, typically.

I wondered about that. Not exactly ethical

very popular amongst private & state parents though 😆

Has anyone else noticed how OPs wait for one person to agree with them and then jump on that one post? It makes me chuckle.

£15k pre VAT here and only 1 child at a time (1 year crossover)
I still acknowledge our privilge but its not as much as you assume.

So they'll be absolutely fine then. Think of all the money they'll save if they can no longer afford a school place. It won't cost that much for all the extra curriculars

The only parents I know who are sending their daughters (with suspected autism) to private school do approve of this idea.

I do get confused by the argument of some that its the politics of envy & spiteful to support VAT on private schools whilst equally moaning that it won’t affect the wealthiest, arguing their dc will push your dc out of the grammars, criticising those who can afford expensive houses & hoping that VAT is applied to tuition & uni. 🤔

Yes, I know. What I would hope is that all the people who feel they're doing a praiseworthy thing by sending their children to an outstanding, hand-picked state school when they could easily have afforded private are also insisting on paying their children's tutors by bank transfer and ensuring that this second income is declared for tax purposes. I don't have any time for tax dodgers.