AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

I’ve never seen this in the high-earning industry I’m in. It’s a total myth. In this DEI-obsessed world, if anything it is a disadvantage to be private school educated, particularly if you’re a white male. CVs don’t include schools or universities attended, for a start.

I'd say there is quite a lot of middle class support for it in our London area, but for the reasons you state - it's spiteful and there's a lot of bitterness here that parents in good professional jobs were priced out of private education years ago. They are already all within distance of excellent state schools (with an older child in place so younger siblings are all guaranteed places) so they aren't worried about an influx of private school pupils. The best state schools here are already well resourced due to parental donations and families aren't so dependant on the school for a rounded education because they spend a lot on extracurriculars and tutoring, so whether the money ends up in state schools won't make a big difference to those families.

Getting rid of private schools isn’t going to remove longstanding family and friend networks. Those networks are not only formed in schools. I say that as a state educated person who went into an industry known for being dominated by the privately educated. I never once felt at a disadvantage. In fact I haven’t got a clue where my colleagues were educated.

Equally, those against this policy often DO have access to good state schools but choose, for a variety of reasons, not to use them.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to say ‘no private school parents should pay VAT because some of the state schools their children might attend are poor (often because of the challenges they face for budget and socioeconomic reasons)’. It would I think, be unworkable to not charge VAT for individual pupils if all schools within commuting distance for that family are RI or Inadequate, especially as school gradings change over time?

Equally, IME school reputation by word of private school parent mouth is not always a particularly objective or reliable measure. As a teacher, I have dealt with a number of parents when the illusion that their privately educated child would be top of the class in a fairly average state primary (much derided in local private school circles) was shattered.

Absolutely this. Both my partner and I were recruited into (different) industries apparently dominated by the privately educated. We were both state educated. Recruitment was done based on merit, as it rightly should be.

"100% this.

Middle class here. Can easily afford private school but choose not to send our kids there (and yes could still afford it with VAT being added) as I don’t buy into them being better. What makes our state schools ‘outstanding’? Middle class local parents pushing the state schools to be brilliant.

And for balance there are three private schools in our town and I know many kids that go there. It hasn’t been better but that’s by the by.

Most of the people I speak to are in favour of VAT on private schools.

In fact I haven’t known one that doesn’t. The people who don’t are the people who will have to pay it (which isn’t surprising).

Finally I have been to both state and private so have some understanding (before I am accused of not knowing)."

@Resilienceisimportant

Just interested - if you weren't wealthy enough to afford the nice house in the outstanding school catchment and instead were pushed out into a less desirable school due to less people going private if you would have the same view? Your post just proves you support the policy as it doesn't negatively effect you. And if push came to shove you could go private anyway. Some people aren't so lucky.

Probably a lot more middle-class people on MN support the policy since they've read all the hand-wringing threads on here of the overly-privileged banging on about all their "sacrifices", who clearly don't inhabit the same world as the rest of us.

She’s a politician. She’s spinning the rhetoric, as politicians do. Everything they propose, they manage to put a spin on it, that’s their job - always try to change a negative into a positive, but most people I would imagine can see through it

That too. It has been an extraordinarily tone-deaf campaign by those against the policy.

@MrsMurphyIWish You have confused me, I’m not disagreeing with you but thought I was just responding to a question.

Do indie parents drive their kids out?

this question …

I think I'm probably middle class in my lifestyle/earnings, although mine and DH parents and grandparents definitely working class.
I dislike this policy for several reasons

• it feels spiteful at those who are at private school or diagnosed on not diagnosed additional needs
• those with deep pockets won't struggle to pay, but the squeezed middle will
• parents made the choice to send their child to private school without knowing this was coming, there should have been a grace period where children couod finish their current schooling level without paying the VAT.

But my biggest issue is the lack of clarity around how exactly this will make improvements, if any additional money raised will be ringfenced, how much more this means per state school pupil - I read somewhere that at best estimates it will provide about £20 more per state school pupil per year which isn't going to make any meaningful difference. They are billing this policy as a 'magic bullet' to the issues in state school, when it obviously isn't.

I also think that the assertion that it takes 'sharp elbowed middle class parebts being forced into state schools' to raise standards is patronising and rude towards working class people, that they somehow don't care enough about their childs education to improve their school themselves, the idea that we need to swoop in and save them is ridiculous!

• those with deep pockets won't struggle to pay, but the squeezed middle will

the squeezed middle are not spending £20-30k a year PER CHILD to attend a private school, don’t panic

@TonTonMacoute I was replying to a question about where the money is going, plus I think people can be in favour of something but also be indifferent.

If they do support it there must be a reason why they think it's a good thing.

I think it’s more they don’t unsupport it, why shouldn’t they pay VAT?

@MidnightPatrol

"Will she be closing religious schools down next then"

Hopefully.

Re: support from m/c families - the vast majority of middle class families send their kids to state schools. Why would they want the state to perpetuate tax policies that facilitate the best off people using their money to help their kids trample over the backs of everyone else's kids in the scramble for the best university places and jobs?

I live in the south west. All my DC have been or are currently being privately educated since the age of 3 - I know a lot of parents therefore with dc in the private sector. I know literally no one who thinks VAT on the fees is a good idea.

I also know plenty of people with dc in state sector - particularly in grammar or v good comps - they are rather worried about how people pulling their DC from private to go into state may impact them negatively.

If we had our time again with VAT on fees we would have done state until year 7 then moved to prep and senior for private .

It's not a total myth.
Private school pupils have absolutely had multiple advantages historically.
Diversity, etc is only a very, very recent phenomenon.
You only need to look at, for example, the partners in a magic circle law firm to see that the great majority are white and male. A lot were also educated at Oxbridge, which has historically had a huge proportion of privately educated pupils.
I find it quite amusing that the group of people who have had every advantage and privilege bestowed on them for generations are often the loudest complainers now if someone from an ethnic minority is prioritised, having been discriminated against for all past generations.

Even music lessons have had VAT added, which is even more spiteful.

Why is it spiteful?

Anyway Surrey has already said they have zero state places for any child over 13 @WomensRightsRenegade can you link to this? There are definitely places in Surrey…

And the richest people will be completely unaffected.

would it be better if they were affected? If so is that not spiteful?

I'm undoubtedly one of those Bridget P is talking about & I'm in favour of the VAT charges. Most people make sacrifices for their children, but still can't afford to send them to private schools. If some parents can no longer afford the fees, there are places available in local schools. It's not an issue.

I’ve never seen this in the high-earning industry I’m in. Try law or journalism

Granted journalism probably doesn’t pay well but MC law partners on 1.5m tend to come from a fairly narrow background.

As regards the private school fees, I would say that the majority of the population are pretty ambivalent to this policy. If pressed, the majority would be in favour but it really isn't the top priority for most people that it appears to be on Mumsnet.

Some of them do. There are perfectly normal, average families using the private sector, often after the state sector has failed them. Many often only have one child. Some are supported through bursaries but pay part of the fees. There are well over a million stay at home parents in the UK. A stay at home parent could afford private school fees for a child on a full time minimum wage job.

Exactly. I've just used the same example a few posts up.