AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

But how will it be 'of some help'. Many projections are that on balance it will raise a small revenue - at best about 0.5% increase in state school budget, likely much less. I don't know about you, but I would quite like to see more than a 0.5% improvement in state schools.

My girls are fortunate enough to go to a brilliant state primary with smallish class sizes, great teachers and leadership, good SEN provision. We have no need to private. I appreciate our good fortune in having this state school on our doorstep, fee free. Thats true privilege, one which every child deserves, but which I sadly can't see any plan from labour on how they will acheive.

The non SEND parents opposing this new tax might be on relatively low incomes and might want their NT kid to still have the chance to go to an alternative creative less pressure more outdoor school like a Forest, Montessori, Steiner or Waldorf school. The majority of these are fee paying, (maybe c10K a year at secondary age but can be less). typically these are not attended by wealthy families. Often these schools don’t offer standard exams the parents are seeking to avoid exam pressure. Those will be 20% harder to pay for too. I believe Bluey goes to a Steiner school- maybe they’ll write this into the storyline?

And yet we're being told (by the Secretary of State, no less) that the "pushy parents" currently sending their kids to private schools will drive up standards in state schools. No indication as to how this will be achieved, of course. It's a bit insulting to the parents of kids already at state schools to imply that they aren't as influential.

Other PS parents who object might be parents of kids with an exceptional talent who (to progress) need specialist facilities or specialist teaching at a particular kind of school (elite sports, or music, dance or maths whatever it is). those schools have such a small pool of potential pupils they will have to give up specialisms or be at risk of closure probably. Making the UK the poorer in its sporting and cultural life.

They might be parents who want their kids in a specific often small minority in the UK and non-Christian, religious environment who can’t replicate that in state schooling.

They might be parents of girls or boys who want a single sex school environment that isn’t available to them anywhere nearby in a state school.

Other non SEND parents just might not want the bursary pot at private schools to dry up since these are funded by surplus income. They might think it’s wrong to charge VAT on education.

They might think it’s hypocritical to charge vat on private schools but not charge it on private tutors (which the wealthy state school parents use). They might object to punitive and overstated policies being rushed in so early in a new government and worry what that means for the future.

There have been loads of threads on all the different reasons and it’s been really interesting hearing about all the different kinds of schools that exist (for now)

I wonder how many more threads like this we will see.. I'm honestly not sure how helpful threads like this are, I wonder if anyone really changes their mind after reading these threads...

I'm not sure what the solution is and I don't think Labour have the answers or that they are bold enough. It is so frustrating, as the system is not working for a huge majority of people and those with more or a better experience don't seem care about others - or if they do it is tokenistic

Oh diddums, are they.?? Where’s my tiny violin. They’re businesses so if they aren’t financially viable then they should close, just as happens in the rest of the worlds or perhaps sell off a paddock or two.

It’s not finalised yet. The Finance Bill was published in November with a second reading on the 27th. The Committee of the Whole House took place in early December. (There’s committee stage, report stage, third reading.)

Another upshot will be an increase in home schooling

Thank you for this. Choice in education is vitally important, and the state cannot provide this in the vast majority of cases. Especially if the end result is a total monopoly on what education is, and how it is delivered. My fear in all this is what happens if state education provision is all there is - and the "wrong" party get in, where the ideology is abhorrent. You might laugh, but it's already happening in parts of the US (my other country of citizenship), with a significant christo-fascist curriculum now coming in to states like Texas.

@Blabadder - was that a patronising swipe at my comment? Many small private schools do not have the 'odd paddock to sell' and yes, I imagine many are not financially viable. Schools which really are not offering this wonderful education so often boasted about on MN whilst demonising the state sector.

‘ My November and December payments are a credit towards the Spring terms fees but I haven’t paid VAT on these payments as the VAT rules were not in force. So now, they have to amend the direct debit to reflect not only the VAT on the payments from January onwards but the VAT for the November and December payments. ’

Amending a DD is hardly rocket science! I can do that in my phone FFS. I’m certain a school that manages millions in fees each year, not to mention nickel and diming parents for everything from trips to gumshields will manage amend an invoice and invoice 🤔

I am in favour of this policy. I voted remain and absolutely acknowledge that this policy is an unintended consequence of Brexit, a positive one in my opinion.
If we needed to scrap it to build closer ties with the EU, then I would be in favour of that as well.

Very true, few people are able or willing to change their viewpoint, but just double down with insults and stereotypes.

Definitely agree that Labour are not being bold enough, which is hugely frustrating.
But the reason it's frustrating for me is because I do care about others and i do acknowledge our privilege in having an excellent state primary. And I'm frustrated for my daughters friends that are currently doing well, that they may struggle in our local secondary which isn't great. We will stretch to private (by me, against my principles, taking my specialist clinical skills out of the nhs and into private practice) but several of my daughters bright, kind, capable friends won't have access to that and their fantastic potential may be wasted if labour don't do something really bold and significant fast.

You're probably right. However, after the awful situation involving the death of a young girl, Sara Sharif who was home schooled, where the judge commented that played a factor in her death, I'm sure the government will be looking at that more closely in the future

100% this! My daughter's friend is out of school and has been for a year plus! EHCP finally granted and council are disputing the choice of school that meets the child's needs - apparantly this is a common tactic to delay paying for as long as possible - preferring instead to pay lawyers to defend decision! Appalling

They’re not businesses: they don’t make a profit, have no shareholders, etc. They are run just like any other school except the finances come from endowments and/or fees rather than the state. Most independent school budgets look pretty much the same as Academy budgets in terms of what they spend on and how. Is a state academy a business? (But you’re not interested in that, are you? Don’t let facts get in the way of the nonsense, will you?)

I genuinely think that this is going to be better for many who leave private school… the number of parents saying they need wrap around breakfast to dinner time wrap around care to pay for fees or are working weekends to pay fees or 2 jobs to pay fees or giving up holidays to pay fees seems high. It might be nice for their children to actually get to spend some time with them for a change.

I’m certainly not laughing at what’s happening in the US. It proves we’re only a few votes away from handmaidenism.

It seems nice does it? So one parents gives up their career and you lose their tax receipts, they’re not trained teachers so the educational outcome is patchy, the children don’t get socialised with others, and don’t get used to coping with an outside environment.

I’m not against homeschooling but it can be highly problematic.

I haven't seen 1 nasty comment on here about State schools and/or State school kids and Parents but certain posters really are unpleasant and bitter about Private Schools.
If I was to gleefully harp on about little Kyle and Lawren having shitty facilities because their loser parents didn't care enough to try and improve things at their failing Comprehensive I would quite rightly be shredded.
You can agree with VAT on Private Education and even believe/hope it will help to improve education for all DC without showing contempt for children who may be facing a major change through no fault of their own.

If your DD’s friend can’t attend school and is compulsory school age, the LA has a duty to provide provision under s19 of the Education Act 1996. This is separate to the EHCP process. If alternative provision isn’t in place, their parent(s) can use IPSEA’s model letter to request provision. If the LA refuses or delays, they can look to send a pre-action letter, and proceed to JR if necessary. If they are appealing the EHCP, they can also request an expedited hearing on the basis DC isn’t in school.

Wow

Agree, but you're thinking about your friends and family, which is natural. But what about all those other children you're not friends or family, who are currently struggling in the state system. I'm not saying that's a reason for friends children to struggle but my point is people don't do anything about it, they carry on voting for the same old politicians.

I agree, it will be nice.
But if those parents are teachers, or nurses, or drs, this will be a loss of their specialist skills to the public, and a reduction in tax revenue, which won't help fund state school improvements?

Just like when I move my specialist paediatric skills out of the nhs and into the private sector to fund private school for my oldest when she leaves her fantastic state primary in a couple of years, that will be fantastic for equality won't it! My nhs salary would have covered fees pre vat change, but not now. It's against my principles, but ultimately my children take priority over my principles.

Exactly. He won’t afford that kindness to other children who also - since they do not send themselves to these schools - their parents do. The reason he won’t is because he is blinded by his own ideological beliefs.
Unfortunately he is also a hypocrite. He was on Radio 4 maintaining the high moral ground by openly declaring how he had made a promise to his son that he would have peace and quiet away from the press outside his door while his son studied for his GCSES. As Keir himself said this was his son’s ’one shot’ and so important for his son. Sadly he is utterly unable to see that his son is no more important or exceptional than the children now facing severe disruption to their ‘one shot’s. Even if he was dead set on this policy there was ample room for it to be implemented with compassion IE a slow build up. Or a notice period. However I suspect that in his bones Sir Keir knows they have limited time.