AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

Then what’s the point of this policy at all if state education is completely fine? Are you saying it’s all just ideological after all?

State classes stretch the greater depth children- they have to. How on earth are you getting that they’re ignored. State teachers are really skilled at meeting a variety of needs.

Exactly what I said then. You are saying ‘extra time isn’t needed or beneficial in other cases.’

I welcome any means to boost state education.

Yes, some are independent SS, but 5.7% isn’t such a tiny amount it is rare. It is over 30,000 children and young people and increasing each year.

I don't ignore high achievers. I'm an amazing teacher. I support all children and provide extra support for those who need it. Surely you know that children with dyslexia for example need significantly more practice to learn to read than many other children.

Are you a governor in a state school @Juliagreeneyes?

Christ this thread is batshit.

So a minimum of 95% - possibly more - of children with EHCPs attend either state mainstream or special schools or private special schools? (For the sake of argument, I am assuming that 0.7% of that 5.7% are in private special schools - it nay well be more)

As around 7% of students overall attend private schools, private schools, far from ‘taking a burden of SEN students from state schools’ are actually educating a smaller-than-fair share of SEN pupils at the moment?

They really don’t; and in the last statutory curriculum round extension beyond the curriculum was actually removed from the GD curriculum criteria in state schools.

And if it’s all so great in state education, why does it need this VAT policy in the first place? Could it be that you just want to target some parents and kids for ideological reasons, then?

It still makes me smile that any time a teacher makes a comment someone disagrees with they think that slating their teaching ability is the way to go.

So a minimum of 95% - possibly more - of children with EHCPs attend either state mainstream or special schools or private special schools?

No @cantkeepawayforever, this isn’t the case. There are way more options such as EOTAS/EOTIS, EHE, NMSS, FE colleges, specialist post 16 colleges, non-maintained early years settings…

No that’s not what I’m saying if you read it more carefully.

5 percent of any amount is rare, tiny l, minuscule particularly when many will be special schools. Not likely to increase now. Pointless charging vat and then putting children into the private sector , far better to improve Sen provision in the state sector which is the aim.

I have read your post carefully.

5 percent of any amount is rare

Tell that to the NHS and Genomics England and the wider world who don’t take that view on what is classed as a rare disease.

You could also look at many medication patient leaflets that list side effects. Many class 5.7% as uncommon, not rare.

As a parent of 4 DC who are academically strong and a middle class pushy PTA/Governor type state school parent, I would say it depends on the child. NT DD definitely had to do a lot of crowd control and teaching weaker students pretty much from Reception all the way through to GCSEs. She was reading and writing completely fluently by Reception and also knew all her timetables to 12 in Reception and could do arithmetic into the hundreds in her head. The school decided from the beginning that the way to extend her was by making her help other kids. As she is compliant and a pleaser, that is what she ended up doing. She was always placed next to the trouble makers or those struggling or those bullied. She only grew a backbone by Sixth Form when I had drilled into her that enough is enough and that she needs to stop making sure everyone else has understood and start focussing on extending her own learning. And yes DD was given all the positions of responsibility, and lead parts in orchestras etc etc because she is very reliable and I can categorically state that every single teacher she has ever had has loved having her in their class.

So I can only assume that when our Education Minister talks about kids raising standards she actually means that kids who are advanced due to books at home are meant to somehow help other kids learn, learn manners, learn good work ethic etc.
As I have a DS with ASD I can categorically also state that when it comes to a similar or higher IQ child with ASD that is most likely not going to work. My DS was very impatient and intolerant when young and quite angry when not extended or occupied in class. There is no way he would have been able to help others learn at an early age. He is better now that he has matured.

Yes, and I spend a lot of time supporting teachers in our state MAT. I teach myself in HE. I went to a state comp and have spent my life supporting kids in the state sector to go to academic universities. That doesn’t mean that I think that this VAT policy is a good one: it’s a stupid, counterproductive, ideologically poisonous waste of time that denigrates education overall rather than doing anything to help it.

Well you seem to have misunderstood it nonetheless.

If you didn’t mean “I’m not convinced that extra time really makes a material difference to exam performance other than reducing stress.” don’t post it.

@Juliagreeneyes

"Could it be that you just want to target some parents and kids for ideological reasons"

Yes - when the ideology is the belief that equality of educational opportunity for children is a vital feature of any truly meritocratic and just country, and an acknowledgement that the private school system is one of the engines of social inequality in the UK.

Ok let’s go with uncommon. Does that make you feel better?

I don't think this policy will help state education, I'd be amazed to find anyone who thinks it will.

I believe all children should have access to great state education and it shouldn't be limited to those who can pay for it.

Whole policy is a gimmick imo. State schools needs way more funding than what this policy provides but you just know that when people ask the government about school funding, their response will be to roll out the 6500 teachers from private school VAT line.
State schools need a maximum class size of 25. A TA in every classroom. One to one support for those with EHCP’s who need it. More training for staff to cope with the ever increasing needs pupils present with. We need clean, well maintained buildings with computers that work and enough pens, books and glue for all. We need billions.

it’s not about making anyone feel better. So childish. It is about accurate information. Myths and lies make it harder for parents advocating for their DC.

Sigh - so you think that actually entrenching the privilege of the really wealthy independent schools, whilst forcing the less wealthy ones to close and less wealthy kids back into a state sector with limited resources, whilst not really raising much money overall, is a good way to reduce social inequality? What makes you think that widening the divide between state and private is making it go away?