AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

Nobody is saying they can’t. It’s the likelihood of them a ) getting an EHCP and b) getting a named private school put on it that is being discussed.

I support taxing VAT on school fees. Whether it actually improves my local state schools remains to be seen.

Agree with this from the position of a teacher and a parent of a child with ASD.

I’m not convinced that extra time really makes a material difference to exam performance other than reducing stress.

Is this not you saying you don’t think extra time is beneficial?

Oh, I hope that too.

You think? Then why is Bridget Phillipson saying that the pushy middle class parents are going to make the state system better if they won’t get past the door? Is she lying?

You think you have to bully anyone? Do the teachers prefer to teach the lunchtime extra maths to the kid who’s top of the year, or do crowd control? The music teacher doesn’t want to give extra time to the kid who’s in every concert and plays three instruments to grade 8? The teachers shun the kid who turns up every day and does every homework and comes top of the class? The school doesn’t want to give resources to its top pupils to get into Oxbridge so they can look better to prospective parents? (Well, my comp didn’t much; but these days all state schools keep a sharp eye on publicising their grades and outcomes to attract parents.) You think schools don’t favour the high-achieving kids of the pushy middle classes? You think the kids who look like they are going to get 8s and 9s don’t get extra to make sure they do? You think they aren’t the ones who schools put on Oxbridge courses to get more into Oxbridge? (They are: I see them when I teach Oxbridge access courses.) If not, then what’s the government doing claiming that that’s the reason for the policy?

Could it be that the rationale behind the VAT policy is incoherent nonsense? Either the pushy middle class parents have an effect or they don’t. Which is it? (And could it be that they might have exactly the opposite effect to what the government claim?)

Actually, if you read the thread and other similar threads, people have said it isn’t possible. It is.

Wow the arrogance in your post.

😂Good luck, um you don’t get to tell schools where they put their resources.

Could it be that confronted with the likely actual outcome of this VAT policy, you don’t actually really like it at all?

I would love to be a fly on that particular walll 😂

I expect people have said parents don’t get to march in and demand an EHCP, that they’re hard to get and even harder is getting a private school named on it. Just because you want it doesn’t mean it’s likely.

Me too!🤣

It isn’t about wants.

No, some people think independent, especially independent mainstream schools, can’t or won’t be named in an EHCP. That is not true.

They can be but it’s rare- for good reasons.

@Juliagreeneyes

I give my absolute all to all my class. However in determining who to give extra tuition to, That's usually children who are struggling. I run extra intervention to build confidence in children who struggle with Maths or who need extra reading practice. It can involve crowd control but that's part of my job and I do the best I can.

That's what happens in state schools. All my colleagues are the same and it's driven by our SLT wanting the best possible outcomes for all children.

Are you saying private school teachers ignore those children and focus sorely on high achievers? That's appalling.

As a school governor with lots of experience in education and education policy, with a child testing in the top academic centile, I don’t have to bully anyone! Do you think the local state school wouldn’t be delighted to have her?

I’m happy to pay for her to have access to academic subjects that if she went to a state school they’d have to divert resources to at the expense of other, less advantaged kids. I’d rather she was in state education. I’m actually quite gutted at having to send her private. I’d massively prefer good education for all in the state sector.

What I don’t like is a counterproductive and dishonest policy that pretends it’s doing something it isn’t, uses poorly thought through rhetoric to justify it, and will ultimately end up not doing what it claims — all instead of fair taxation to raise standards across the education sector overall.

Saying the pushy middle classes are going to drive up standards in the local state school is the stated rationale of this policy by Labour. So does it work or not? And how are the pushy parents going to improve the school for kids that aren’t theirs? Or are they going to in practice just make sure their kids get the resources there too? Do tell!

Why are you assuming that PS hall have "good intakes"? They are not all selective by any means. What they do have is usually engaged and well educated parents that are attracted by the small classes and specialist staff. The fact that you think specialist subject teachers are "irrelevant fripperies" says a lot 🙄

It isn’t as rare as you are thinking. The most recent government EHCP statistics show 5.7% of DC with EHCPs attend independent schools.

Well said.

You sound very contemptuous of teachers. As one myself, I have faith in the education my autistic child is provided with.

That’s me saying I’m not sure it makes a big difference to exam performance. I’m saying it can make them less stressful - that’s beneficial, but does extra time materially raise grades - there’s little data on that. Feedback from students is mixed - some felt they didn’t need it, some that it didn’t help, many that it was not fair.

I think you're wasting your breath arguing with these people. Skimming this thread, it's clear there is a certain demographic who have no idea what quality education looks like, or what to celebrate about educational achievement in all spheres (for all abilities) or what it even means for a country's cultural heritage if its cherished intellectual life is lost. They will never know or care, and you will never convince them otherwise.

So you and your school ignore the high achievers then? No attention paid to them at all? (That can’t be true: as a governor/trustee I see the school’s attention to all the SAT/achievement metrics and they certainly aren’t saying let the SATs go hang at the top end). But as a teacher, saying you ignore high achievers is very poor practice indeed, no?

You know perfectly well that one of the reasons for small class sizes in private schools is that the teachers can pay attention to both kids who are struggling and kids who are high achievers. That’s the entire point. Is your life going to be improved if you had an additional few kids in your class who need some attention too?

Some of which will be special schools and 5% IS a tiny amount so - rare. .

As a teacher I hope I deliver quality education and thus, I hope my children will receive in turn (my ASD son and my off the chart smart DD).