AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

That would be a ludicrous idea as every single parent would claim their child has Sen. There are already dubious claims re the need for extra time in exams in the private sector the numbers of which are higher than state. There would need to be state assessment of send as leaving it to private schools and parents (both of which have a vested interest)saying which kids have send would be ridiculous .

If the EHCP stated that your child required small class sizes then you would be well within your rights to have a private school as the named school on the EHCP, if your local state school confirmed they could not meet your child's needs and the private school said it could.

So if my child's education breaks down at secondary level, despite the support and adjustments, and the school confirms that they can't meet his needs, then I will certainly be investigating that option.

This with bells on!

So we should harm some children by removing them from a provision that is working to level the playing field? Again IF this policy was going to fix SEN provision on state, I would 100% support it. I could wait a year then confidently put my two back knowing they'll be catered for. But it won't. The only way to fix that requires a FAR bigger spend that can only come in with general taxation on everyone rising.

Most secondary schools can and do provide small send classes for some children .

Which is why you can have a private school named on the EHCP if they can meet your child's needs.

Most?! Not round here they don't.

ETA: your LEA clearly has better mainstream provision than ours. So maybe stop criticising those of us with shit LEA provision for trying to get the best education possible for our autistic kids, eh?

Some do, but many don't.

Whatever . VAT will still be charged from Wednesday on education except for those with an EHCP. You have one soooo….

Oh I know that...I am a teacher and I know how it works, though I think there's an irony there in your point about higher numbers of extra time etc kids in private ...ever thought that maybe it's because some of those kids are exactly the kind we're talking about? Who are in private because of those needs? You can't just demand access arrangements. The exam boards require proof from prior assessments and evidence that they are required.

It's a mixed bag for most of my friends - no one voted Tory but mostly Lib Dem and a few Labour. Even the Labour voters can see it's not going to make a difference to the state schools (especially here as no one wants to be a teacher in a State school because the grammar system takes the well behaved pupils). 6500 magic teachers trained up (3yrs?) and pushed into state schools are likely to leave quickly and be miserable and suffer poor mental health. Everyone would rather the money was spent on SEN or the buildings themselves. It's not enough to make difference and does seem spiteful to the middle class parents who now can't spend the tax elsewhere into the economy.

Great so you can pay the fees and the VAT if you want it. The vast majority in the same position have to do without.

We can't afford private. So we're reliant on the LEA to meet his needs. It was quite clear from my conversation with the case worker that they aren't really that keen on doing so if it means thinking outside either LEA special or mainstream education, despite a private school being WAY cheaper to fund than a special school. Which clearly makes no sense on an economic level, does it?

And nothing changes. Great. Why aren't Labour actually addressing the issues the state sector has?

No, you're wrong. They will pay for private (our local private has LEA-funded pupils at it).

And the privately educated have the sharpest elbowed parents who are paying the wages of their teachers. 81% of send pupils are state educated, the numbers in private schools getting extra time says it all.

Pretty sure they will be spending wayyy more time attempting to than the Tories ever did.

They have always paid VAT on everything they buy. It’s state schools who have been able to reclaim input VAT. The change to the rules means that parents will be paying VAT, not the private schools who will now be able to reclaim VAT (just like state schools have always been able to). Please get your facts right.

I support it.
Pay your tax and stop moaning.

When the 1944 Education Act was put into force shortly after the end of WW2 by the Attlee Labour government, they were able to push a lot of extremely radical things through because they had a huge majority and most British people agreed there was a need for change. The Welfare State had arrived, the NHS had huge support and in education the school leaving age went up to 15 (from 14) and children were now entitled to free secondary education instead of spending their entire compulsory school years in the local elementary school, which took 5-14 years old and taught mostly just the 3 Rs. There were to be grammar schools for the brightest, most academic children, to be selected by the 11+ test. Then there would technical schools for children considerd to have an aptitude for that sort of education. The majority of children would go to Secondary Modern schools which would teach a broad-based curriculum with plenty of opportunity to learn practical skills alongside the more academic subjects.

It didn't work out quite like that, of course. The technical schools largely failed to materialise and entry to grammar schools was dominated by the middle classes. However, there were enough bright working class children getting a decent education that social mobility increased enormously. An additional effect was that far fewer parents paid for private education. They were already paying much higher income tax and the grammar schools were doing a good job, so why pay for a private school?

This is what Labour ought to be concentrating on now. Put up income tax so everybody pays towards getting the NHS and state education back on track. If state schools had good buildings and facilities, a full complement of appropriately qualified staff, good behaviour and discipline, excellent pastoral care and support for children with all kinds of difficulties, a broad-based but rigorous curriculum and all the other things that private schools offer, why would anybody pay, except out of snobbishness?

It would be an investment in the future for our government to do this. We desperately need a better educated workforce with good mental health if we are going to continue to be a prosperous, peaceful country.

What we've had in the last six months, though, is relentless negativity. The tiny amount of money this VAT change might generate is a drop in the ocean of what's needed to sort state schools out and what it's mostly done is give Labour activists a group they can demonise and blame, namely parents who send their children to private schools. Disappointing.

@NoWordForFluffy You really should stop giving inaccurate information. Yes, you can state independent provision on an EHCP. You will only get that provision if all other options prove unsuitable. You are also looking at providing education for a child with very complex needs in need of specialist provision and not a child who simply requires 1:1 and copes better in a small class.

Many state schools let down children with SEND and many fail to diagnose them in the first place. My goddaughters dyslexia wasn’t picked up until she was 12, contrast that with my DC in private school who, as soon as the school picked up on his “spikey” profile at 6, regularly assessed him and provided him with extra support in spelling and writing for the whole of primary. You imply that it’s private schools gaming the system, when actually much of it is state schools failing their pupils.

Your attempt to rewrite your position that you are only slagging off the bad private school mums, as if they are a totally different group, isn’t working.

You’re still being a massively sexist man or woman whichever group of women you’re directing your misogyny at, but it’s particularly low to be directing it at mums of kids with additional needs.

It IS the Sen mums you are calling ‘hysterical’ and you accuse of whipping stuff up.
There are several posters on here with kids with SEND who have been lucky enough so far to have kids in private school after mainstream has not met their kids additional needs.

They are not taking away anything from the kids who are STILL having terrible experiences in mainstream. You know more than one injustice can exist at the same time. This not a race to the bottom.

Those kids with SEND who have only state education to rely on will soon be even worse off when their state schools have to also accommodate the kids with SEND coming in from private schools.

You understand, I'm sure, that parents who pay school fees do pay tax, as we all should do. Income tax, National Insurance, VAT on much of their routine spending, for instance. They find the money for fees out of what's left, and because they are not sending their children to state schools they are in fact paying for other people's children and not claiming back a benefit they're entitled, namely free education. I don't recall hearing any private school parents moaning about this.

Really, private schools don’t game the system!🤣 They’re paid to by parents.