AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

@Whatafustercluck have you read ANY of the posts on the last couple of pages?

Most people I know in our v middle class/wealthy part of town are indifferent, if you can't afford it, your can't afford it, I don't know anyone who sees it as spiteful, more than it was inevitable - if you want private school then you need to earn enough for it. We are in an area of v expensive schools though so most do state.

absolutely agree with this

Ah, right. I don’t think you know what facetious means. Your answer to me wasn’t facetious at all. It was irrelevant, sure, but it wasn’t remotely funny.

It depends where you are. Dc mainstream classes are small. Dd has only 9 but the average is 17.

This the experience of my family members too. Thank you for expressing it so clearly. I really worry about their future.

In secondary?

My DS has ASD and is incredibly intelligent. He was fine in state overall, but it was rocky at times and these were outstanding schools were they made a huge fuss over him and bent over backwards to accommodate his academic and social & emotional needs (and yes we had a lot of sensory issues with noise). He was in a superselective grammar with lots of quiet bookish and very academic boys and that suited him. Whereas a friend from primary who also has ASD struggled in the same environment, although his profile was quite similar to my DS. His mother now thinks he may also have undiagnosed ADHD which mine definitely does not have. DCs with SEND differ massively, just like neurotypical DCs differ. Mine used to read books obsessively on how to acquire social skills and he even has a girlfriend now and she is the complete opposite of him, very socially and emotionally well adjusted and knows how to handle him.
The more we limit the choice of education, the worse for all. In my local area the private schools plus VAT are now 50% more expensive as compared to pre Covid. That definitely translates to less families being able to access them. Wages have not risen by 50% and mortgages have gone up.

I live in Tunbridge Wells. It doesn't come more 'middle class parent' than that.

We are completely surrounded by private schools. . My circle is generation of grandparents who either pay or contribute to school fees. As we do.

Moaning about paying VAT is just not a thing. Haven't her a peep. It's long overdue. Private schools are a business and should have been paying VAT for years .

Use of the misogynist jibe of ‘hysteria’, from a man or woman who regularly comes on here baiting mothers of SEND kids who are simply talking about their own familes’ experiences’ of failed access to a state education, and failed access to council-funded support for needs that their children are legally entitled to, needs to stop

That's the average across all schools in these parts according to our LA stats.

We don't have primary and secondary. It's 3 tier but dc are in middle and high.

Blame the Tories. Ordinary people’s tolerance for tax relief or breaks for the well off is now long gone.
This has been a LONG time coming, and the private sector knows it. If your school is charging YOU the full 20% you need together with other parents and start talking to the business manager. They CAN claim VAT relief - passing the full amount in to parents is lazy.
These schools are businesses. You are the customer. Direct your ire there.

Printing and selling books is a business. But books are exempt from VAT, because they are a public good.

The ‘business’ argument is neither here nor there.

If they earn more they will be paying more tax! Equally there’re people who don’t own Louis vutton who earn more than some one who does- those purchases, like private school education are a choice. And bollocks back

It’s not send mothers whipping up the hysteria it’s anti vat on private school mothers seizing on it with faux(😰 concern( they’ve never had before ) re send provision.Hysteria is hysteria. 🤷‍♀️

One thing I've noticed on these threads is that none of those who are in favour, who say 'they're a business", "it's a luxury" etc ever directly respond to posts like mine and others in the last couple of pages which have outlined why our SEN minus EHCP kids who are in private out of necessity and with a lot of struggle and debt. Please can someone who takes that view please engage with our situation. Explain why you support kids like mine being harmed. Especially given that literally no-one, including BP is actually suggesting that this revenue will amount to anything but the most minor, if any, improvement across the state sector. Thank you.

@M0rnington how do you know if posters have SEN kids or know them? It's not compulsory to declare it.

The two are separate issues. VAT is now payable on private school fees. Obstacles to EHCPs are a separate issue.

Only 6% of children have the privilege of a private education and only 18% of that have “send”. The tiny numbers leaving will not all have send so it is a tiny minority.

You clearly aren't understanding the issues. Or don't want to.

A huge amount of meltdowns could be avoided if the education provision for the child meets their needs. An EHCP's primary purpose is to ensure that the education provided allows them to achieve the absolute most they're capable of, with support and / or adjustments. If that means small class sizes in private school, then that is what needs to be provided, if the state schools can't do so.

Your utter lack of ability to understand this just shows you've no real clue what you're on about, frankly.

Private schools have been paying VAT for years, whether constituted as businesses or charities. They haven't been entitled to reclaim it till now so it's been part of their running costs. As of next term they have to add VAT to the fees so it's the parents who will have to find the extra money, not the schools. The schools will tot up the VAT they have collected on behalf of the government, like all other VAT-registered organisations, and can then offset all the VAT they have paid on their running costs. They pay the net amount to the government if VAT collected exceeds VAT paid. However, if they have paid out a lot of VAT on their running costs, e.g. if they've got a big building project on, they will end up getting money back from the government. This is going to be a huge benefit to rich schools like Eton, Harrow and the other big public schools who seem to be constantly building and refurbishing.

This is one of many reasons why it's questionable how much money this is actually going to raise.

... once registered for VAT, independent schools will be able to claim back the tax they have paid on capital projects such as buildings and land acquisition completed over the past 10 years. The money would be paid back progressively over the next decade, with the timing and amounts dependent on when the project was finished.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/12/eton-among-elite-private-schools-set-to-cash-in-on-windfall-from-new-vat-rules

If you can't see that the two issues are interlinked then you are being deliberately obtuse. And regardless of the numbers, we are talking about childrens' wellbeing, education, MH and futures here. Actual real children, not hypothetical Tarquins and Arabellas. So even if it is numerically a tiny minority, so what? If it's that tiny, maybe BP can include a waiver for those who are on their school's SEN register, regardless of EHCP. Its not going to make a significant difference to the tiny "take" this policy may or may not raise.

I have autistic dc and a child with an EHCP. We’re one of the many many send families that have to survive and do without the privileges of private education.

It is only Brexit which is allowing VAT to be charged now.

High earner here. Pay a fuck load of tax. Don’t avoid it in any way other than money in pensions. Dont use private school.
there are a lot of us.

Do you know how long it takes to get an EHCP? Could you cope with your child being out of school for months, and sometimes over a year, due to insufficient provision whilst waiting for that EHCP?

The vast majority of us who have kids with SEN who struggle to attend school can't afford private school fees.