AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

Yep.

Agree. This is definitely true in my area (SW London).

No it doesn’t. You look at the data of Oxbridge and red brick intake from state schools - the top state superselectives are over-represented. You talk to Oxbridge students from comprehensives in deprived areas who will tell you they find the rich middle class grammar students equally intimidating as the independent students.

Um there is a whole lot of UK away from London. Just being in London gives you huge advantages over other parts of the UK. Don’t think there will be many weeping over SW London kids priced out of private and the best schools in the country. The vast majority of the uk couldn’t rent a shoe box in London- hence the OP being incorrect. It’s a popular policy .

“ 73% of entrants into Oxbridge were from state schools with targets being set in future closer to 90% to reflect 93% of kids in state schools. “

Cambridge is dropping their state school admission targets, presumably because they’ve realised looking at private/state alone isn’t the best way of necessarily attracting the best students.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cambridge-university-oxford-b2511061.html

amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/britains-top-jobs-still-in-hands-of-private-school-elite-study-finds

<sigh>

Studying Latin is learning a language. Learning a languge is valuable. Latin vocabulary has had a huge influence on English vocabulary. People who've studied Latin have a huge leg up in learning how to spell in English and what English words mean. Latin is an inflected language and learning the grammar rules is a very good way of training the brain. There's a strong correlation between being good at Classics and being good at Maths and coding. Learning Latin gives access to Latin literature, which is wonderful in itself and has been extremely influential on all subsequent European literature. The history of the Roman Empire is fascinating and underpins the history of every European country and a fair number of North African and Middle Eastern countries. Roman mythology, art, architecture, engineering, law, philosophy, history of science - all massively important. And so on and so forth.

You didn’t answer my question so need for the patronising sigh. I’d like to know why it’s worth taking tax payers money for a few to learn Latin away from SEND and crumbling buildings. Are you seriously thinking that Latin should have a higher priority? It will have been quite rightly axed because there is no money.

Exactly. And most of that outside world neither voted Labour nor supports this policy. But on MN everyone is 'middle class' (but using state schools) on VAT threads and 'working class' on class threads. Funny that.

It’s lovely for you that your outstanding state secondary has spaces. Many do not and are already over capacity. Recently a MN teacher in a state school was complaining they had to take in students from the nearby private school which is closing down, which they simply don’t have room for.

Numbers are falling in state schools.

The most recent pay rise was brought in (but not fully funded) by Labour. It was also in the labour manifesto to fully fund free breakfast clubs for every primary school child, which i was really excited about as a real, quantifiable policy which would help many of our families in low wages, but sadly they have now scaled this back to specific areas.

You seem to have misread my posts entirely.

If you read them again you will see that I have never said that private schools are not over-represented. I said that of the state school intake for Oxbridge, red brick and top professions - the top state superselectives dominated by middle classes are over-represented too.

What are you on about? Seriously. There are many valuable languages to learn which will help you more - including (considering our current world Chinese and Arabic).

PhD in Maths / professor at top universities (family member) sucks hard at languages including English (native language).

I can speak two other languages fluently and didn’t learn Latin.

Close friend - English lit prof, didn’t learn Latin.

History may be interesting but it can be learned in English.

You sounds like you have been brainwashed by the value of Latin which just isn’t true.

Why does it have to be either or? This used to be one of the richest countries in the world. Why can we now only afford to do the absolute minimum?

Yup. Lower birth rate in recent years compared to 15 years ago.

Yabu. I am a mc parent with a professional job and anecdotal of course but I don't have much sympathy when discussing with people who privately educate.... 1) won't get the £20k watch when next on dubai on business 2)holding off on the in the ground swimming pool for now 3) one less ski holiday etc etc

And yes inget the SEN angle it's personal to me but the majority are really not suffering because of a 20% increase. It's their choice. You choose the option, you have to absorb the cost and budget for increases for 5-18 years old... and not in line with inflation.

It's not spiteful. I'm yet to be convinced it will do good but YABU

Not brainwashed. I have a Classics degree. So does my husband, so does our daughter, so do a lot of our friends. Classics is one interesting and valuable subject. There are plenty of others. I don't want to see state schools narrowing the curriculum to the 3 Rs and not much more.

They’re falling in some as the birth rate falls (in cities it can also be due to lack of affordable housing) while others are at over capacity. But the decrease in numbers also reduces funding schools receive - which brings its own problems - reduction in teaching staff, narrowing the curriculum and extracurricular activities, and less support for SEN students.

Because the Tories have run everything into the ground.

Good for all of your classics degrees but you sound alike you are justifying them. I agree it must be very interesting but unless very specific jobs are had I fail to see over usefulness except getting a higher education. Anyway, that’s by the by.

My sons state schools offers five languages, music lessons, drama, coding, over 50 clubs/sports teams etc. The local
private schools didn’t offer half of that.

And they are working on that with outreach schemes, the regional outreach scheme looks interesting. The over representation of London and SE schools seems to have been recognised .

Really? A previous poster was implying that DD must have gone to a grammar or lovely, lovely comp. Well she didn't. Instead she went to our local school which was under funded & neglected by the previous government.

Surely you realise that you can still be a high achiever with teachers who can spark your imagination and your desire to learn in a state school? There's a clue in the word comprehensive.

Well, less fluid for British kids who only have a UK passport.
cheers, Farage supporting Brexiters… tho my kids do have EU passports many do not.

You're very lucky with that school. You must know that's not the norm, though.

All education is valuable. It irks me when people say studying Latin is a waste of time because it's a dead language. There is also undoubtedly some inverse snobbery here. Just because Latin and Greek were taught in public schools and grammar schools that doesn't mean the study of Classics is elitist in itself.