AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

Do you not see the irony in this. Get out of your own ivory tower.

I am a middle class parent who cannot afford to send my kids to private school and I think its spiteful.
It also makes me think less of the Labour party as its an ill-thought through policy as its so clearly designed to appeal to their core base of middle class parents who buy their way into the catchment of the best state schools and yet enjoy hating private schools as its so unfair that people can buy their kids a better education. 🙄 Met so many of these in real life.

All this policy does it make private schools even more elitist for the richest and will push more middle class families into buying their way into the best state school catchments, potentially making housing there even more absurdly expensive.
Its also disastrous for kids who will have to move mid-education as their parents can no longer afford the fees.

Oh boo bloody hoo. And what AWFUL
fate awaits them? Going to a state school that 94% of us use… nooooooooooo!!!!

Absolutely this. I lived in Edinburgh and given the cost of moving to the catchment to the best state school over the average house price in Edinburgh it was cheaper to send two children to private school for secondary education, than move to the catchment of the best state secondary.

It would be nice to have a grown up debate on this so please set out your ideas rather than insulting people you disagree with. Sadly everything is black and white these days when real life is grey. It is terrible the way the state sector has been neglected. I wholeheartedly support extra funding for the state sector - this is not the policy to achieve that. Most private schools are not Eton and this will adversely affect all kids. We do not make the state sector better by making the private sector worse. Grow the economy and we will have more funding for everyone...sadly Rachel Reeves hasn't thought that one through either.

My son's go to an outstanding school in greater London. 3 bed flats available for £300k in catchment if school is everything.

Its hard for kids to move school. They lose friendship groups. For quieter, less confident kids this can be especially difficult. It can be very hard to impossible to make their way into new friendship groups. Sorry you have such poor emotional intelligence that you can't understand this. They may also move to schools using a different curriculum to the one they were following, which will obviously be very disruptive to their education, especially if they are near their exam years.

Sorry you weren't able to figure that out for yourself. Doesn't look like that state education worked out so well for you after all.....

Middle classes, priced out of the private sector, will only send their little darlings to the best state schools. Elbowing out others who can’t afford the rising house prices or tutoring in the best catchments. In what way is that a plus?

Facts, @WarriorN? Evidence-based policy based on research and aforesaid facts? How very quaint! I mentioned dozens of posts ago that Labour has pulled the funding on a scheme that was providing Latin teaching in some state schools. All the evidence is that this does a lot to improve attainment across the board. But it's Latin. Elitist taint, I suppose. So it's been scrapped in February 2025, halfway through an academic year, even though the scheme had made it possible for thousands of kids to be entered for Latin GCSE and they were expecting to take the exams in summer 2025.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-face-significant-disruption-as-government-culls-latin-scheme/

It’s a lot easier to pay for tutoring than private education, you can even DIY. The best state schools still don’t provide the unfair advantages that private education does as illustrated by the over representation of the privately educated in all the best jobs and unis.

Well personally I'm all for it.

Thats great and I’m pleased for you but it’s a gamble and as I’m sure you know there is no guarantee of a place. As I’m sure you do too we juggle work commitments and family commitments which means not all locations are going to work.

How on earth does a dead language improve attainment across the board, more than any other language-evidence please and evidence that providing it at expense is worth the cost of taking money away from SEN and those struggling to get gcse English.

Well how’s this? I have a friend at work whose kid is autistic and the council pay to send him to a private school which can better accommodate his needs. She wouldn’t be able to afford this. Transport is all paid for as well. Private schools are the utopia of education some would believe but often in cases are for kids who struggle with mainstream for whatever reason.

This is me. We have a high performing state school nearby which DD would usually get into. I’m very worried that the influx of kids who would otherwise have gone to a private school will mean she misses out. If it’s not her,and she’s one of the lucky ones who gets in, then others will be disadvantaged.

We’re middle class by education and profession, but we’re not in high-earning professions. Certainly nowhere near able to afford school fees even before the VAT. There are many like us in the area.

So kids who are already privileged will take places that might otherwise have given less privileged kids a real leg up. Fantastic.

It is NOT a popular policy where I am, including amongst those who could never aspire to send their kids to a few paying school.

There are guaranteed places within a set area for this school.

Yes, you could buy a lovely 4 bed large house for £1m plus, but they aren't the only options. Even if every single private school parent did this, less than 7% of children are privately educated.

Children move schools all the time in the state sector, forces kids can move every 2 years or even less. It’s not a hardship doing it once or twice and something parents should have thought about before paying for a private education they can’t afford. No financial situation is ever a given and having to leave private education is always a risk.

It’s very popular where I am.

I expect it is self selecting. Only the kids who are most likely to do well (ie, bright motivated kids ) will join a lesson in something like Latin.

Your friend’s child must have an EHCP which means he will not be impacted. 94% of kids aren’t in the private sector and that includes the vast majority of those struggling in education. They have to get on with it as will the previously privileged privately educated .

We do not make the state sector better by making the private sector worse.

I agree. In general I think reducing the diversity of education will have a detrimental effect on the UK economy and society generally. Well over 20 years ago we were able to get a place for our daughter at an excellent state school which had very good language and science teaching (for a state comprehensive school).Our son couldn't go there because it was a girls' school. There were several state schools in the area we'd happily have sent him to, but he didn't get a place. So we accepted a scholarship from a very good independent school. He had a great aptitude for languages and was able to take four to GCSE level and two to A level. Most of the boys in the school went on with at least one modern language to AS level. In the mean time, modern language teaching in many state schools seems to have withered on the vine. Languages are perceived as hard and difficult to get a top grade in, so schools don't push them because it could pull their results down a bit. Numbers going through to modern language degrees are in freefall. If fewer children go to independent schools this is only going to get worse. See also: drama, art, music and anything else that doesn't contribute to targets.

Do you not have a really good school near you, where the places are covered? Or not many kids who would go to private school, so no additional pressure?

I can see there would be some area where people would see it as a universal Good Thing because of the above.

It’s a lot harder to get into state schools without tutoring if all the rich middle class kids have been tutored up to the nines. (Unless what you’re actually saying is that you’re happy to support unfair advantage as long as it’s affordable to you).

The best state schools absolutely do represent exactly the same kind of advantage as private schools regarding top unis and top jobs, and thanks to this policy will be filled with the same rich middle class students, whose families will now be able to take more skiing holidays as they’re not paying for fees.

The domination of education by rich middle classes will not change, it’s very naive to think it would.

Data shows otherwise

So another anecdote. My kid goes to an “outstanding” senior school, so desirable choice. We have three private schools in our town. There is space in his large school (200+ per year I don’t know exact numbers) as I very recently did a tour for my other kid and counted heads with most classes being 25. I asked (cause sure illness etc) and the deputy head told me they weren’t full.

Precisely ZERO private schools kids have moved to the school so far. There is no waiting list.

And while I’m here I thought that I would add I have never in my entire career ever hired anyone who went to a private school just because they went to a private school. Or a grammar school for that matter. I have probably hired 100 plus in entry to senior levels and it just doesn’t matter. So maybe getting into uni and the course you study but you can do that from any school. Any school. In 2023 (sure numbers can change year to year) 73% of entrants into Oxbridge were from state schools with targets being set in future closer to 90% to reflect 93% of kids in state schools. So yes proportionally more kids from private go to Oxbridge, but 3/4 don’t.

So no, I don’t think we need to be subsiding private schools.