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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why women would be uncomfortable with unisex bathrooms

388 replies

Chumssss · 28/12/2024 21:58

Discussion with my DH tonight about this. Am I right in thinking that unisex bathrooms are not great?

OP posts:
susieguert · 28/12/2024 23:32

I'm not up for piss all over the floor and bog seat thanks and that's what I've faced in most unisex bathrooms I've been in in London over the past 5/6 years.

LifeInAHamsterWheel · 28/12/2024 23:32

AmateurNoun · 28/12/2024 22:16

I’m not bothered by them in ‘controlled’ environments, eg our small office has a unisex toilet. 3 floor to ceiling cubicles but shares a sink

They are still not great in this kind of environment. Somebody I work with was prosecuted for voyeurism involving filming women. Fortunately we have single sex toilets at work, but the point is you can't necessarily trust people you work with and someone like that might have done something at work if he'd be given the chance.

Yes, this. But also I refuse to use the unisex toilets we have at one of our sites as I don't want to hear or be heard by any of my male colleagues. No matter how well I get on with them. I don't feel at risk, but certainly my privacy and dignity would feel compromised.

Keeptoiletssafe · 28/12/2024 23:33

@Sux2buthen @Ponderingwindow @JarvisIsland @SwanRivers @Cherrypickled @GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing @PerditaLaChien @WinterBones @curtaintwitcher78 @RamblingEclectic @Newhi @WigglyVonWaggly

and to all those who haven’t realised or thought about the importance of gaps when you are at your most vulnerable….

Mind the Gap
Toilet door gaps are vital for safety and safeguarding. Yet across the country new toilet block designs are getting rid of the gaps at the bottom and tops of toilet doors and partitions, to make cubicles fully enclosed.

Medical Safety
If you feel nauseous or ill you are likely to head to the toilet. If you collapse, you are more likely to survive, or avoid suffering long-term damage, if someone notices and rescues you.

There are known medical reasons for a disproportionally high frequency of cardiac arrests and strokes while an individual is in the toilet room. There are no UK statistics that list where people collapse. However, it is known there are around 100,000 hospital admissions due to heart attacks in this country, equating to one every five minutes. It is estimated there are 400,000 people in the U.K. with undiagnosed heart failure. There are also around 100,000 strokes in this country, equating to one every five minutes. Around 1% of people in this country have epilepsy and around 80 people are diagnosed with epilepsy each day. There are many other conditions that lead to collapse where you need to be noticed and accessed quickly eg. diabetes and asthma.

Children are particularly at risk now more than ever. In the last few years the Department of Education has changed the toilet designs in secondary schools, putting privacy ahead of safety and health. The building schools document now specifies a 0.5cm floor to door gap for privacy. As far as I am aware, there has been no impact assessment on closing the safety gaps. The words ‘safe’, ‘safety’ do not appear in the toilet section but ‘privacy’ in mentioned and this is the reason they gave me.

To put figures into perspective for UK schools there are around 9 children with epilepsy in an average secondary school. There will be on average another 2-3 with Type 1 diabetes. Several hundred children are diagnosed with strokes each year. Every week on average 12 people under the age of 35 are lost to sudden cardiac death.

The DfE understands the important of quickly getting emergency help - it now expects all state funded schools to have at least one defibrillator on site because defibrillation can increase the survival rate by as much as 75%. But knowing the person has collapsed in the first place, and therefore getting help as quickly as possible, is vital.

Like wearing a car seatbelt, toilet door gaps can make the difference in those critical moments.

Governing bodies must ensure arrangements are in place to support pupils with medical conditions. Some children and staff, such as those with epilepsy, may be considered disabled under the definition set out in the Equality Act 2010, and governing bodies must comply with their duties under that Act. When I complained to the DfE they said the governors are responsible for knowing their cohort and that there should be supervision. And that if a pupil did collapse it is ultimately the school and governors’ responsibility. How are governors supposed to know who is about to collapse from a fever, a spiked vape, a hypo, a stroke, a heart attack, a seizure?

Prevention of Sexual Assaults
In any space that becomes private, more offences are likely to take place as there are no witnesses. In Parliament it was discussed that there was at least 1 rape inside a school premises each day (over 600 in a 3 year period). The data, collected by the BBC, mentions an example occurring in a private cupboard. This was in 2015, before many schools decided to change their toilet designs to fully enclosed and mixed sex. The toilet door gaps are vital for safeguarding to help prevent activities that stop pupils, especially girls, going to the toilet.

There is no available data on these new toilet designs but, teachers and pupils are now reporting many problems with ‘drug dealing, drinking and dirt’. In one newspaper article, school staff reported, ‘Kids would go in there to have sex, to drink alcohol. They’d push other kids in and lock themselves in with them. They’d block the drains and flood the corridor.” Another responded: “The toilets were really smelly and unpleasant. Because they were fully enclosed spaces they weren’t properly ventilated, and harder to clean.”
One teacher was worried someone could collapse unnoticed in a completely enclosed cubicle. They said: “The CCTV in the corridor was only any good retrospectively. The toilets had turn locks, so you could open them from the outside if you needed to, but you couldn’t hear through the door, couldn’t see whether there was one or two people in there, or if someone had collapsed.”

Other Health, Safety and Welfare concerns
Toilet cubicles with insufficient ventilation present a high cross infection risk. If toilets are fully enclosed, premises have to rely more on efficient mechanical ventilation to prevent disease spread then school absences rising. The practicalities of cleaning a vomit-covered floor are difficult when the mop can not go under the doors and partitions and the cleaner can not soak the floor with disinfectant from outside the cubicle. Ensuring each individual cubicle is always lit and not vandalised is a concern.

More staff supervision is needed outside these fully enclosed designs as it has been shown that pupils are more likely to engage in multiple occupation activities (sex and drug dealing), illegal activities (taking drugs) and self harm due to the privacy. Staff have the responsibility of checking toilets in the event of an emergency evacuation. This becomes a much longer process without the door gaps to aid quick identification of occupation.

Of course the problems in secondary schools are repeated across the whole country when it comes to unisex toilets in public places. Particularly with women being spiked and nightclubs. And also in disabled toilets which are traditionally mix sex.

I saved a young woman’s life by entering the ladies toilets and saw a blue hand on the cubicle floor through the gap and we rescued her in time. Unfortunately another time it was too late to prevent damage to a child because of a full height door. It is for this latter time I want to educate people and try and get the Department of Education in particular to prioritise safety rather than privacy.

Gaps save lives and prevent assaults.

StripyHorse · 28/12/2024 23:33

Local theatre is being refurbished.

Currently the toilets are mixed sex, with floor to ceiling cubicles, all containing a sink, mirror and sanitary bin. Some of the toilets are more accessible. There are doors on both sides of a central corridor. Outside the toilets (so you could see the communal area if you turned to face it) are some benches.

They don't feel unsafe at all.
The queues are shorter than the ladies' queue used to be.
It is easier for parents to take children of the opposite sex to the toilets.
It is easier for people with caring responsilities (e.g. elderly parents) to assist them to the toilet area.
Baby change facilities are equally accessible by both parents.

In short - I really hope they remain like this.

Maddy70 · 28/12/2024 23:33

I really don't mind. It's very common in my country

fairfat40 · 28/12/2024 23:34

derbiee · 28/12/2024 22:07

Female toilets are gross i can't imagine men's being any worse

If they have cubicles not sure why the panic

Oh, sweet summer child …

On a more mundane level it’s the frequent stuff, the piss on the seat and shit on the back of the seat too.

On a more serious level it’s the sexually violent behaviour of some deviants - the semen wiped on loo paper and rolled back, the spy cameras etc. Behaviour that’s rare? I’d hope so, but just Google spy cameras in toilets and you’ll get the gist of the ones they do catch. How many don’t they catch? Look at the Pelicot trial. I refer you also to the Malteaser analogy. If one in 10 was a piece of rolled up shit, would you trust them?

NameChanges123 · 28/12/2024 23:34

Lots of men are filthy perverts/predators, who also don't care if they piss all over the floor/toilet seat.

I'd rather they were contained in their own allocated space.

JockTamsonsBairns · 28/12/2024 23:35

I'm trying to figure out where I stand on this, simply because I've never encountered an issue with a man in a female/unisex toilet before.
I'm probably quite naive on this - but, I live very rurally, so it's just not been on my radar.

It sounds like the unisex toilets described on here are full of disgusting men with filthy habits, who urinate all over the floor and toilet seat? Like undomesticated animals?
That sounds utterly vile.

However, there's a distinct lack of threads on MN from women who say their men are equally this vile at home?
Are these men perfectly sanitary at home, but displaying disgusting standards in the workplace?

I work in an office building with unisex toilets, and I haven't encountered any issues at all.
But, maybe I've just been sheltered from what others are seeing?

Livelovebehappy · 28/12/2024 23:35

Just wouldn’t feel safe in a toilet area with men I’m afraid. Too much of an opportunity for a man to attack a woman. It’s generally a confined space, where you’re in a state of undress, and I just couldn’t imagine how that would feel sitting in a cubicle with your knickers down at your ankles, with an unknown man in the next cubicle just a couple of feet away in a similar state of undress.

Scirocco · 28/12/2024 23:36

Hygiene, safety, privacy.

endofthelinefinally · 28/12/2024 23:36

"Why can't we have female bathrooms?"

Because that would mean saying no to a certain type of man and they don't like that.

StripyHorse · 28/12/2024 23:38

StripyHorse · 28/12/2024 23:33

Local theatre is being refurbished.

Currently the toilets are mixed sex, with floor to ceiling cubicles, all containing a sink, mirror and sanitary bin. Some of the toilets are more accessible. There are doors on both sides of a central corridor. Outside the toilets (so you could see the communal area if you turned to face it) are some benches.

They don't feel unsafe at all.
The queues are shorter than the ladies' queue used to be.
It is easier for parents to take children of the opposite sex to the toilets.
It is easier for people with caring responsilities (e.g. elderly parents) to assist them to the toilet area.
Baby change facilities are equally accessible by both parents.

In short - I really hope they remain like this.

And one more point...

  • the sink in the cubicle means privacy for cleaning moon cups etc/ washing hands with menstrual blood on. I don't want to do this in front of anyone, male or female.
HolyPeaches · 28/12/2024 23:39

In a previous job we had unisex toilets in the office. I walked in one morning to find a guy (no idea who he was) having a wee in a cubicle with the door wide open.

Another time, I walked in one of the cubicles to fine a shit in the middle of the floor. Obviously no idea if it was a man or woman who did it but still it was gross.

Powderblue1 · 28/12/2024 23:40

On our Christmas do this year me and some female colleagues went to two bars with unisex bathrooms.

Honestly, I really didn't like it at all. Was uncomfortable and most importantly, I felt that if it was quiet and I went into the bathroom at the same time as a lone male, I wouldn't feel comfortable/safe being in a vulnerable position (I.e: semi naked in a stall) especially when it's in a bar where I/he had likely been drinking.

MadameMaxGoesler · 28/12/2024 23:40

"Men who want to go into women only spaces are the reason why women only spaces are necessary."
Sall Grover

Goodtoknowhey · 28/12/2024 23:40

I don’t understand why there would be any need for mixed toilets? Just why?

chattyness · 28/12/2024 23:41

It's not just pee all over the seat it's the other bodily fluids men & boys like to share all over them. It's a very well known fact that AGPS literally get their rocks off by being in women's spaces and toilets are extremely sexually exciting to them. There are other revolting behaviours they take part in as well but I can't bring myself to type the words and may be against the guidelines here so 🤐 The info is freely out there anyway because they're really not shy about showing it off, despite claiming to be the most vulnerable group in society.

batshitaboutcatshit · 28/12/2024 23:43

DH was in the men's toilets once when another man's face appeared over the top of the cubicle. He shouted at him WTF was he doing and the man said "just seeing if you had any toilet roll"

I've no idea if this man was just insanely stupid or a pervert (I know which one I suspect) but it's always bothered me. I feel sorry for young innocent boys having to share toilets with these sorts of men. The thought of this kind of thing happening in the ladies is terrifying.

Goodtoknowhey · 28/12/2024 23:43

Maddy70 · 28/12/2024 23:33

I really don't mind. It's very common in my country

Which country are you in?

nildesparandum · 28/12/2024 23:45

HelenInHeels · 28/12/2024 22:11

A woman I knew died this way.

My sister was found dead on her toilet floor.
I am a retired nurse and some of our patients who had survived heart attacks said they had a sudden urge to move their bowels just before it happened

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/12/2024 23:45

JockTamsonsBairns · 28/12/2024 23:35

I'm trying to figure out where I stand on this, simply because I've never encountered an issue with a man in a female/unisex toilet before.
I'm probably quite naive on this - but, I live very rurally, so it's just not been on my radar.

It sounds like the unisex toilets described on here are full of disgusting men with filthy habits, who urinate all over the floor and toilet seat? Like undomesticated animals?
That sounds utterly vile.

However, there's a distinct lack of threads on MN from women who say their men are equally this vile at home?
Are these men perfectly sanitary at home, but displaying disgusting standards in the workplace?

I work in an office building with unisex toilets, and I haven't encountered any issues at all.
But, maybe I've just been sheltered from what others are seeing?

Edited

If you read the relationships board, yes there are women dealing with this from husbands and sons. It's generally seen as either total lack of respect or a deliberate act to belittle the wife/mother.

GirlWithTheRedScarf · 28/12/2024 23:46

I would never use a unisex toilet. Horror stories of cameras being hidden etc I would rather wait and use an all female toilet tbh. There’s a reason that they only ever recruit females for constipation med commercials. It is because men’s toilet habits are generally seen as ‘stomach churning’. Female toilets can equally be unpleasant but imho I think I would take my chances and stay to all female toilets.

Keeptoiletssafe · 28/12/2024 23:46

@StripyHorse
See my post 23.33

If you had the experiences I, and some other people on this thread, have unfortunately had in ‘floor to ceiling’ toilet cubicles, I expect you would quickly change your mind.

If I was in a cubicle being assaulted or having a medical emergency, I would want to be as visible as possible.

5foot5 · 28/12/2024 23:48

YouMeandBrie · 28/12/2024 23:26

My DH hates unisex toilets, says they make him feel really uncomfortable and self conscious about making a noise or a smell. I suspect lots of men feel the same, lots of people prefer privacy from the opposite sex.

I suspect you are right.
I remember having a conversation with a young nephew a few years ago and asking him how he was enjoying his new secondary school. It seems it was all good apart from the toets which he hated. They were mixed!

Mummyoflittledragon · 28/12/2024 23:48

DorothyStorm · 28/12/2024 22:10

Men’s toilets are beyond disgusting. Go in any unisex toilet at a restaurant after men have been in.

we have a unisex toilet at work and the men do not look back. And they keep moving the sanitary bin out of sitting reach out of their way. Er, no dickhead. It is a shared space, it isnt designed just for your comfort.

Can you complain about men doing this? Women are not supposed to be disadvantaged (lol) by the toilets becoming unisex.

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