Shared disability toilets with baby changing facilities

[MobilityCat]

Yesterday, I found myself in an embarrassing and upsetting situation when I crapped myself while waiting outside the disabled toilet. A mum was inside, chatting and cooing to her baby while changing its nappy. While I completely understand that she needed a suitable place to change her baby, I couldn’t help but wonder: why does it have to be in the one facility specifically designed for the disabled? Why can't the baby changing facilities be located in the women's toilet or have a separate dedicated room for this purpose?

It is the point. If she had a disability then she may want accessible changing facilities.

I remember a M&S store had a sign on the disabled/baby changing toilet also describing it as a baby feeding room. I wrote to them to complain about the implication that women should feed their babies in a toilet and not in their cafe attached. Can't remember what they said about it or if they changed it. I was annoyed about them wanting breastfeeding mothers hiding in a loo.

There need to be separate spaces for baby change and disabled access - I also wish there were more places with space for a buggy and a loo - so many times when I had a tiny baby I have had to leave early and go home to go to the loo as nowhere I could have a wee and take the pram in!

Can't remember what country it was, but there was a pull-down changing table in the area with the sinks - in both Ladies & Gents.
Seems the obvious solution to me.

Often space doesn't allow for that, and depending on set up it's not appropriate for toddlers to be taken into the men's to use a table in there if there are open urinals.

Shall I explain it again slowly for you?

You have my sympathy, that was completely out of order, in my case I was uncomfortable and smelly but wouldn't think of banging, demanding and being abusive.

Blah blah pregnancy makes you disabled.. blah blah something about being told to fuck off?

There's been loads of threads like this in the past and they always involve 'chatting, cooing or singing nursery rhymes'.

I've never understood it either.

It's just a way of keeping the baby calm during a nappy change. It's not like it slows the process down 🤷‍♂️

Also never experienced such a thing.

My child has a medical condition that means constant diarrhoea, when they were little I had to use the disabled toilet as no other changing area. A change often involved wiping poo off her entire back, legs, stomach and changing her entire outfit. Bagging up the dirty clothes and all the wipes. I usually ended up having to clean the table down too. It wasn’t quick and I clearly remember that feeling of someone banging on the door for me to hurry up when I’m elbow deep in wipes and poo and an uncomfortable child. I hated emerging from the loo with people staring at me or sighing. I would always apologise but they probably assumed I was also taking my sweet time.

I do appreciate that must have been awful for you, I have had incontinence issues and have wet myself in public before and I understand it is mortifying. But the reality is sometimes there will be a queue for a public toilet facility, obviously that’s difficult if you have urgency and can’t wait but not every awkward situation can be mitigated. In another situation you may have crapped yourself because a disabled person was in the toilet ahead of you, or because the location of the toilet was a little further away than you were able to reach. That is the reality of urgency and it’s awful, but the fact you weren’t able to wait a few minutes for one person ahead of you in the queue still doesn’t mean there is an inherent issue with shared facilities.

My mum became disabled just before I had my baby and I've been thinking exactly the same thing. They shouldn't have baby changing in disabled loos.

They should also make sure ordinary loos have enough space for a pram also, the amount of times I've struggled to be able to go to the loo whilst out with my newborn was terrible!

Where else do men take small children when they are out?

You are right that the baby change shouldn't be in the disabled toilet. However I also think it saves space because dad's change babies too and so either needs to be facilities in the ladies and in the gents, or there is just one in the disabled toilet. There should really be a dedicated baby change facility, and a dedicated disabled toilet.

Some years back I regularly changed a child and periodically took my mother, who had dementia to the toilet. On average, I would say taking my mother took longer and was more complicated to get through the toilet than my son was to change. Yes there should be separate cubicles. However, you might have to wait just as long or longer for a person who needed the disabled toilet just as much as you, so while it would definately be good if baby change was separate, anytime you go to a toilet, not in a private house, you might need to cope with waiting.

There’s one accessible, disabled loo in most places. Needing quick access to the loo can be a part of someone’s disability. To suggest that shared facilities aren’t an issue when it limits the availability of the only loo someone is able to use is ridiculous. Drop down changing tables in the men’s and women’s loos would be more sensible.

This has echoes of the entitled mothers who complain about drivers with blue badges using parent and child spaces. One group has protected legal rights designed to improve accessibility so that they can get on with living their lives. The other has ridiculous pushchairs and a sense of entitlement bigger than their 4x4s.

My son is disabled, in nappies and far too big for baby changing. I have to change him on the floor (a whole other thread), in the disabled toilet. I've had people banging on the door to tell me to hurry up, it really makes a stressful situation more stressful, especially when they keep banging despite my call outs. I try to only visit places with changing places toilets which has made our world even smaller.

I found them a godsend when I had my ds as I have a disability and could do two birds with one stone so to speak.

I can understand why people find the shared space annoying and there's an argument they should be separate (and I'm sorry you went through what you did op) but disabled people have children too and the changing facilities still need to be in there otherwise what are we to do?

The way these things happen is that a venue gets a contractor to do their loos, the contractor checks the space available and the building reg rules. Which say you need handles and a help alarm etc but don't exactly spell out that disabled people are at risk of not making it in time if a toilet is not designed well.

Baby changing in the disabled loos means one yellow bin only, which probably saves the venue money. Disabled people's sanitary stuff and baby nappies can both go in one bin.

Baby changing in the main gents/ladies means you need to buy two baby changing tables, more bins to empty, slightly gross issues around sinks and poo and most people don't want to change their baby's bum in full view, not very dignified.

I'm really sorry about what happened to you, sounds horrible. The above are reasons rather than excuses. It could have been another disabled person in the loo, though.

I think that's a bit rich. I've known people have blue badges for slightly tenuous reasons and conditions that come and go. Eg my grandmother had one for arthritic knees but she walked miles every day. Someone got one for an inner ear condition that rarely played up and if it did, they didn't go out.

If you can't park in a wide bay with a baby in a car seat, you literally can't get out of the car. No massive pushchair or 4x4 required. Baby might well be screaming and you have no other option.

I wouldn't have a go at someone with a blue badge but it's not 100% clear cut.

And non-shared facilities doesn't mean they're always available. More than one disabled person can be in a venue.

I agree that they should be separate (and I think BS8300 recommends this too).

It would be good if the unisex baby change also had a WC in it, as it can be very difficult to work out what to do with a pram when you need the toilet yourself - especially in places where the ladies/gents are down a large set of stairs - looking at you here British Museum.

And so accessible changing facilities should be provided. That's not the same as the accessible toilets and the changing facilities always being lumped together so people who need the accessible toilet might have to wait behind an able-bodied baby-changing adult.

Why? People with disabilities may want to change their baby

I'm up for that. Accessible toilets with an accessible baby changing facility. Preferably in the same room. Sounds ideal

"Baby changing in the main gents/ladies means you need to buy two baby changing tables, more bins to empty, slightly gross issues around sinks and poo and most people don't want to change their baby's bum in full view, not very dignified."

Dignity ? I don't think the babies will give a shit monkey's.

If you can't park in a wide bay with a baby in a car seat, you literally can't get out of the car. No massive pushchair or 4x4 required. Baby might well be screaming and you have no other option

That’s an inconvenience. One you can usually avoid by parking further away so there’s space next to you. Wide spaces are nice to have and convenient for mothers with babies in a car seat. They’re essential for people with blue badges. If you can’t see the difference I can see why you’re missing the point.