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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

friend ‘lodging’ gone sour

494 replies

sausagedogmumm · 26/12/2024 23:10

Need some advice/opinions

Myself and my partner let a friend lodge with us a few months back. At the time she had no where to go and we offered to help, as it’s just the 2 of us with 3 bedrooms. The original deal was a stop gap for her whilst she got herself sorted, we agreed she wouldn’t pay rent but instead pay for household bits and bills. This was a short term fix, she has a cat who we originally said would have to stay elsewhere as we have cats and a puppy of our own and our cats are female and not yet spayed and live inside and hers is a male, outside cat. She also informed us all her belongings would be stored elsewhere, it would just be her and the stuff she needed for a short while, whilst she got back on her feet.

She was unable to find anywhere for her cat to stay so we suggested he stayed downstairs in our dinning room which leads out into the garden and would give him access in and out - it’s a big space and cosy and would mean he was completely separate from our pets, we even suggested she could bring him up stairs at night - our spare room is tiny so this seemed a better option for him.

The week she moved in, we were informed she’d lost her job and the storage had fallen through, so suddenly we had her, alllll her stuff and her cat in our tiny spare room (and her belongings filling our garage and dinning room). She then refused to house the cat downstairs and instead insisted we put up a ‘shelf’ on the outside of our mid terrace house so he could jump in and out. We turned this down, so after a lot of trying to change our minds, she settled for him being let out the front door (carried down).

We realised within a month in, none of our ground rules had really been respected, she was regularly letting her cat mix with ours and then randomly dropped on us, her cat has a gum disease which can be transferred through salvia. She did not contribute to bills and would leave all her dirty washing up in the bowl for us to clean. She then began to leave her cat outside all evening and go out, which caused our neighbours to complain he was trying to get into their houses - to which her response was to tell them to ‘f off.’ She spilled some kind of ink on our carpet which she didn’t inform us of and it’s now ground in and the whole thing needs replacing, put posters on our walls and cracked our paintwork.

As you can imagine, we are very frustrated with the situation and became even more so, when she asked to write up a contract claiming she was paying rent so she could claim more benefits. We refused as she was not actually wanting to pay but transfer it to us and then us send it back and we said we cannot since that is fraud and we are in jobs that require a DBS.

This caused her to become even worse with us and she now regularly moans at us for things like letting her cat in when it’s raining or shutting her bedroom window if we’re going out for the evening and she’s also out till late.

We decided to inform her, we would need our spare room back by the end of jan (6 weeks notice), we stated this was mainly due to our cat ripping out her fur due to the stress of the male cat in the house, meaning until he’s gone, our poor girl is on steroids and stress relief which is costing us hundreds. This combined with the fact she leaves heaters and lights on at all times and has 2 hour baths which has caused our bills to triple, has meant we can no longer have her stay.

She has taken this awfully, threatening suicide and claiming she’ll be on the streets. We have suggested again and again, she contacts the council to try and get housing support but she refused to do so until we told her she had 6 weeks.

Was it fair of us to give her a deadline to move out? We genuinely cannot afford it and my partner grew up in a household with a parent who regularly threatened suicide so as you can guess, he is finding it all very hard

OP posts:
Nchanged89 · 27/12/2024 09:00

MadinMarch · 27/12/2024 01:03

It wouldn't be an AST as she's a lodger. A lodger has very virtually no rights.

Would you put it past someone who uses suicide as a manipulation technique to try get OP to sign an AST to obtain those rights?

JC03745 · 27/12/2024 09:02

I'd misread this as being evited on 6th Jan, so in just over a week, not the END of Jan!!! I'd have a clear plan on changing WIFI, changing locks, clearing out the stuff from her room/storage etc and give her a revised date in say 7 days (if being even more generous than you have been)- not in another months time! Citizens advice or shelter might have info to help.

Check your credit rating too! We had a work colleague stay with DH and myself in our small flat. She stayed weeks. I returned from work to find she'd bought over her own 'friend' who spent the day in my home! I'd never met this women before and the lodger never asked.

When our lodger left, we started getting bank statements with her 'friends' name on them at my address! I have no idea how she opened a bank account with our address on though!

XmasElfOnTheShelff · 27/12/2024 09:38

She’d have got 6 hours notice from me.

TwinkleLights24 · 27/12/2024 09:54

I think I would start packing her stuff up from around the house and have her leave before new year. She must have family she can stay with.

Incenseda · 27/12/2024 10:05

Get this user out of your home.
You were targeted.
She never had any intention of contributing.
Involve the police if necessary.
Get her out and block her.
She's a grifter.

MadinMarch · 27/12/2024 10:21

Nchanged89 · 27/12/2024 09:00

Would you put it past someone who uses suicide as a manipulation technique to try get OP to sign an AST to obtain those rights?

An assured short term tenancy (AST) only applies to a rental property where the landlord does not live in the property. It wouldn't be valid or stand up in court, even if OP were to sign it.
This is a lodger situation without doubt, as defined by the law.

MerrilyOnhigh · 27/12/2024 10:56

Tell her that, in view of the effect on your cats and the expense that is causing, plus the expenses in terms of repairing the damage she has done, she now has until, say, 14th January, and give her written notice confirming that. That gives her more than enough time to find a job and somewhere to live. Make it very clear that her stuff will be out on the streets if she doesn't leave that day, and change the locks.

RandomMess · 27/12/2024 10:59

I would revise her notice to a week and let her present herself to the council as homeless.

Flowers
IainTorontoNSW · 27/12/2024 11:01

sausagedogmumm

It is late in the discussion but you have shown compassion ABOVE AND BEYOND THE NORM and been "trodden on", so to speak. Your friend has been biting the hand that's been there to help her.

Back in early to mid 2021, a family member (a younger sibling) fell on hard times ... no home, relationship fell apart, no savings and few assets ... hit rock bottom in the space of a fortnight.

She appealed to me for a "temporary" place to live and I consulted with my wife. We formulated a plan ... our live in guest could move in when she showed up a recent date-stamped public housing application and a 2nd application for the adjoining city.

She RELUCTANTLY (with many, many protests) made both applications and then we let her move in with her two rescue cats.

We hoped, at best, that she'd be gone in two to three weeks. To help her get back on her feet, we charged no rent or utilities. All we expected was that she'd supply her own food, keep her area (the whole of our 7m by 4m rumpus room) clean and tidy and not be too wasteful with water, electricity.

We half-expected that she'd pitch in and do a bit of vacuuming and tidyng while we were at work.

What we got was a massive fail:

  • a $AUD2500 leather sofa shredded by cats' claws
  • holes in the wall where she put posters and a Pivotelli
  • constant mess in our laundry
  • 7-8 months of tedious sobbing and upset (and each time we enquired if she needed to 'vent' or share her reasons for unhappiness and depression, we copped "you don't understand and you don't want to understand.

Finally, with Christmas 2021 approaching, I reminded her of the impending end to our time limit for her residency.

She did not go quietly and regaled other people with stories of how unreasonable we had been overall.

It's taught me to be less charitable than I'd like to be and I have now become very suspicious of some people's hardship stories.

N.B. I am not the only male on the planet that likes cats and has had his own cats for 65+ years, but her cat management gives lackadaisical cat owners bad reputation.

Barleycat · 27/12/2024 11:04

Why aren't your cats spayed?

Cherrysoup · 27/12/2024 11:09

Threatening suicide is worthy of calling the police, it’s been mentioned on here multiple times if you’re worried for her safety. I’d tell her very straight that’s she’s fucked her chances with you due to damage/not following the basics/stress8ng your pets and she’s got 2 weeks, sod 6 weeks, that’ll be torturous for you. She can go to the council and say she’s being made homeless, I mean, it’s true. Get her out, change the barrel of the lock in case she won’t return or has made an extra copy of the key. You have no moral or legal obligation to her. Get rid.

RealHousewivesOfTaunton · 27/12/2024 11:14

Screw January. She'd be out by the end of December if this was my "friend". What a cheeky user.

Polyethyl · 27/12/2024 11:16

MadinMarch · 27/12/2024 10:21

An assured short term tenancy (AST) only applies to a rental property where the landlord does not live in the property. It wouldn't be valid or stand up in court, even if OP were to sign it.
This is a lodger situation without doubt, as defined by the law.

Is it a lodger situation when no rent is paid?
If there is no payment then it surely can't even be a lodger status. Just unwanted guest status.

LittleBigHead · 27/12/2024 11:47

YANBU

It sounds absolutely awful

Hibernatingtilspring · 27/12/2024 11:55

All the posters telling her to present herself as homeless to the council are very optimistic about homeless services! .
Be mentally prepared for the fact that the council won't help her - they wouldn't in our area. That's not to say you should keep accommodating her, but she will likely need to blag a favour from another person to store her belongings and sofa surf.

People without children rarely qualify for emergency housing accommodation and if they do, it's very specific circumstances - people with severe and enduring mental health issues (usually at a level that they have a care coordinator, being depressed because of your housing situation is 'normal'), people with a health condition that would be significantly at risk without accommodation (eg someone with diabetes who needed a fridge for insulin, or who needed to be in a specific area to access treatment like chemo). In our area they would do that assessment within the day that you present at the council offices and give you a leaflet about private renting while offering to ring people you know to see if they'll let you stay. At most you'd get help with a bond for a private rent deposit. In our nearest city they would add in a referral for charity homeless hostels or HMOs that tend to take people within the week if they have proof of benefits.

Be prepared that she may not find anything and that you may need to change the locks while she's out and bag up her stuff, however horrible that sounds. She's a grifter and she's taking advantage of you

MoreHappy · 27/12/2024 12:03

Work out what day your local council is open and give her written notice for this day - don’t wait until end of Jan. She is not a friend and your relationship is done - get rid of her asap.

TammyJones · 27/12/2024 12:11

I'd never do this .....but your first mistake really was letting the cat stop.
Re- home it now.
Next get her to find a home share -anywhere.
She has treated you appallingly....I'm surprised you're even friends , as this can't be new personality traits - you surely saw her for what she was - one of life's takers.... let her find some other mug. ..,, and she will

TammyJones · 27/12/2024 12:12

name1234noidea · 26/12/2024 23:19

This sounds so horrific I'm struggling to believe it's real. How can anyone be such a dick? Her not you!

To add - this all does seem a bit 'Jack- a - nory'

TammyJones · 27/12/2024 12:13

name1234noidea · 26/12/2024 23:19

This sounds so horrific I'm struggling to believe it's real. How can anyone be such a dick? Her not you!

Anything that could go wrong, has gone wrong ...

Azerothi · 27/12/2024 12:15

Whether she commits suicide or not is not your, or your boyfriend's, problem.

She is despicable to make fun of those people who do feel suicidal but don't boast about it. Get rid as soon as possible. 6 weeks is far too long.

AngelicKaty · 27/12/2024 12:44

Nchanged89 · 27/12/2024 09:00

Would you put it past someone who uses suicide as a manipulation technique to try get OP to sign an AST to obtain those rights?

Former Citizens Advice adviser here. Under housing law OP's friend, as a lodger, has the housing status of "Excluded Occupier" because she shares a kitchen and bathroom with her "landlord" (OP and her DP). An excluded occupier has virtually no rights and OP just has to give her "reasonable" notice to leave (usually the length of the rental payment period, but as no rent is being paid it could be as little as one week if the lodger has behaved in an anti-social way, as hers has). Excluded Occupiers are not protected under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977 and OP does not have to get a court order to make her grifter lodger leave. Neither OP or her lodger can enter into an AST due to their co-living arrangements, which are dictated by housing law in the absence of a written agreement stating otherwise. OP's lodger could try to persuade OP to sign an "Occupation contract", but do you really think OP would be so daft? They've had nothing in writing since the "friend" moved in, so why would OP formalise the arrangement now? On a related matter, OP does not have to give notice in writing (because there's no agreement to occupy in writing) although if I were OP I would send a text to the lodger saying "Further to our conversation on [date] when I gave you six weeks to vacate our property, this is to remind you that this notice expires on Monday 6th January 2025 and we expect you to move out on or before this date with all your belongings. If you haven't already done so, I strongly advise you to contact our local council's Housing Options Team to make a homelessness application."

pictoosh · 27/12/2024 12:51

Great. I was going to suggest a visit to CA.

There you go OP. You're fine to serve notice and tell her to leave.

Do it. I know it will be hard for you to be firm and see it through but you can and you should.
Be tough now. Good luck. x

AngelicKaty · 27/12/2024 12:55

Polyethyl · 27/12/2024 11:16

Is it a lodger situation when no rent is paid?
If there is no payment then it surely can't even be a lodger status. Just unwanted guest status.

Lodgers (who pay rent) and house guests (who don't) are both "Excluded Occupiers" under housing law and have minimal rights. OP can give "reasonable" notice to leave (six weeks over the Christmas/New Year period is perfectly reasonable) and she doesn't need to get a court order to put them out when the notice has expired.

Playgroundincident · 27/12/2024 12:56

I'd give her six days she has no contract so you owe her nothing. She isn't even a lodger as they pay rent. I'd chuck out all her stuff and remove her poor cat.

BlazenWeights · 27/12/2024 12:59

You are unreasonable to be asking this question. She needs gone, yesterday!!!!

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