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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

friend ‘lodging’ gone sour

494 replies

sausagedogmumm · 26/12/2024 23:10

Need some advice/opinions

Myself and my partner let a friend lodge with us a few months back. At the time she had no where to go and we offered to help, as it’s just the 2 of us with 3 bedrooms. The original deal was a stop gap for her whilst she got herself sorted, we agreed she wouldn’t pay rent but instead pay for household bits and bills. This was a short term fix, she has a cat who we originally said would have to stay elsewhere as we have cats and a puppy of our own and our cats are female and not yet spayed and live inside and hers is a male, outside cat. She also informed us all her belongings would be stored elsewhere, it would just be her and the stuff she needed for a short while, whilst she got back on her feet.

She was unable to find anywhere for her cat to stay so we suggested he stayed downstairs in our dinning room which leads out into the garden and would give him access in and out - it’s a big space and cosy and would mean he was completely separate from our pets, we even suggested she could bring him up stairs at night - our spare room is tiny so this seemed a better option for him.

The week she moved in, we were informed she’d lost her job and the storage had fallen through, so suddenly we had her, alllll her stuff and her cat in our tiny spare room (and her belongings filling our garage and dinning room). She then refused to house the cat downstairs and instead insisted we put up a ‘shelf’ on the outside of our mid terrace house so he could jump in and out. We turned this down, so after a lot of trying to change our minds, she settled for him being let out the front door (carried down).

We realised within a month in, none of our ground rules had really been respected, she was regularly letting her cat mix with ours and then randomly dropped on us, her cat has a gum disease which can be transferred through salvia. She did not contribute to bills and would leave all her dirty washing up in the bowl for us to clean. She then began to leave her cat outside all evening and go out, which caused our neighbours to complain he was trying to get into their houses - to which her response was to tell them to ‘f off.’ She spilled some kind of ink on our carpet which she didn’t inform us of and it’s now ground in and the whole thing needs replacing, put posters on our walls and cracked our paintwork.

As you can imagine, we are very frustrated with the situation and became even more so, when she asked to write up a contract claiming she was paying rent so she could claim more benefits. We refused as she was not actually wanting to pay but transfer it to us and then us send it back and we said we cannot since that is fraud and we are in jobs that require a DBS.

This caused her to become even worse with us and she now regularly moans at us for things like letting her cat in when it’s raining or shutting her bedroom window if we’re going out for the evening and she’s also out till late.

We decided to inform her, we would need our spare room back by the end of jan (6 weeks notice), we stated this was mainly due to our cat ripping out her fur due to the stress of the male cat in the house, meaning until he’s gone, our poor girl is on steroids and stress relief which is costing us hundreds. This combined with the fact she leaves heaters and lights on at all times and has 2 hour baths which has caused our bills to triple, has meant we can no longer have her stay.

She has taken this awfully, threatening suicide and claiming she’ll be on the streets. We have suggested again and again, she contacts the council to try and get housing support but she refused to do so until we told her she had 6 weeks.

Was it fair of us to give her a deadline to move out? We genuinely cannot afford it and my partner grew up in a household with a parent who regularly threatened suicide so as you can guess, he is finding it all very hard

OP posts:
Marieb19 · 29/12/2024 05:29

She is manipulating you. Does she have family? She has to go.

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 07:09

JWhipple · 28/12/2024 18:02

She's a nightmare and needs to leave.
If you hadn't taken her in she would've managed so what's changed

YABU for having unspayed cats though.

FGS read the thread. On 27.12.24 OP wrote: "male cat is neutered and female cat is booked in but has to be off steroids for a certain amount of days before she can be x" OP has also posted that the only reason her female cat is on steroids in the first place is because she's stressed by the so-called friend's male cat being in the house and is pulling her fur out - costing OP and her DP even more money!
YOU ABU for not reading all of OP's posts before posting yourself. 🙄

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 07:20

Dugongs · 28/12/2024 18:25

Be careful .. if she pays anything towards bills, I think she can make a claim on the house as she's beneficiallly contributed or something ..

From internet..

Beneficial interest is a legal concept that gives someone the right to share in the benefits of a property, even if they are not the legal owner. This can include the right to live in the property, receive a share of rental income, or receive a share of the proceeds when the property is sold.

You're wrong. Beneficial interest in a property can only be claimed by a partner in a relationship, a child of the legal owner, or someone who contributes to the property in non-monetary ways, such as taking care of it. OP's so- called friend is none of these. Furthermore , this interest would be gained over a long period of time, not a matter of weeks.

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 07:25

Tikityboo · 28/12/2024 18:24

No need for you to endure another 6 weeks.

She has no intention or expectation of getting a new job or new accomodation sorted in that time scale.

Her situation will be exactly as it is today - she is homeless/jobless/sofa surfing.

She will likely be housed in emergency accomodation by council - she might as well do that now rather than at the end of Jan.

Bite the bullet.

Reclaim your space and your peace.

She might learn something in life from you being assertive - ie dont emotionally hijack and blackmail others with threatening suicide.

Thats emotional abuse and you need to protect yourself from her and she needs to learn that deploying that sick tactic has serious consequences.

A friend of mine asked someone to leave their house. They refused. The next day she calmly called the police to say she had a tresspasser on her premises and they arrived and escorted them out.

Edited

OP doesn't have to "endure another 6 weeks" because she and her DP gave this grifter friend verbal notice around 24th November and it expires on 6th January - so that's the date they can put her out.

SoMuchBadAdvice · 29/12/2024 08:45

There is no legal requirement to give any notice and I don't see what you are hoping to achieve with the notice period. I would think that she may be better off with social services without the notice period and they will probably wait for the notice period to expire before considering what to do. At that point they will probably require her to be evicted before looking for accommodation for her.

NotMeForBakeoff · 29/12/2024 08:50

If you could afford it, I'd even rent an airbnb room for a month and kick her out now. How disappointing for you.

Laurmolonlabe · 29/12/2024 09:28

Yes it's absolutely fair to give her a deadline- I would guess she wasn't sacked but gave in her notice because she knew she could mooch off you- there were many red flags, but trying to implicate you in benefit fraud is the final straw- personally I would have packed her things up and called a van to take her and her belongings away, it is so far from acceptable- I would guess she has done this before as the slippery slope seems well planned.
Her housing and mental health problems are HER problems , not yours- if her being suicidal is real, which I doubt- even if she did commit suicide successfully you have nothing to reproach yourselves for.
Home is sacred, and she has desecrated yours.

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 09:31

SoMuchBadAdvice · 29/12/2024 08:45

There is no legal requirement to give any notice and I don't see what you are hoping to achieve with the notice period. I would think that she may be better off with social services without the notice period and they will probably wait for the notice period to expire before considering what to do. At that point they will probably require her to be evicted before looking for accommodation for her.

Not true. Even with "excluded occupiers" (as defined under housing law) which OP's friend's housing status as a house guest is, you are still required to give "reasonable" notice. If OP's friend was a lodger (another type of "excluded occupier") paying rent, reasonable notice would typically be the frequency with which they pay their rent e.g. weekly or monthly. OP's friend isn't paying rent so it would be reasonable to give her a week's notice. However, OP and her DP very generously gave her verbal notice of six weeks and this is due to expire in eight days' time on 6th January when OP can put her out with her belongings (and if she creates merry hell they can call the police for help with a breach of the peace).
OP's "friend" could have made a homeless application to the local authority as soon as she lost her former home (you can make an application up to 56 days ahead of actual homelessness). She could also have made a claim for UC as soon as she lost her job (and she would have been eligible for the housing element to cover, or at least contribute towards, the rent on a new place once she found somewhere). Once in receipt of UC (it takes five weeks from application to first payment) she could also have applied for help with the deposit and first month's rent from the LA in the form of a Discretionary Housing Payment (DHP). Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like she's done any of this, which is a pity because she would be in a much better position on 6th January if she had.
It is the LA's Housing Options Team's responsibility to help the "friend" with housing (not social services) - they have two duties: "prevention" and "relief". Part of the prevention duty usually involves speaking to the "landlord" of where they're living now to see if they can negotiate a way for them to stay, but with a house guest who's overstayed their welcome this conversation would be very short (if it even happens at all) and, of course, OP and her DP are under no obligation whatsoever to extend her stay any further.

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 09:37

NotMeForBakeoff · 29/12/2024 08:50

If you could afford it, I'd even rent an airbnb room for a month and kick her out now. How disappointing for you.

Bad advice. The rental contract would be in OP's name so if her "friend" caused any damage, OP would be liable to cover the costs of repair. In any case, this grifter former friend has already cost OP and her DP enough and they shouldn't incur any more expense because of her.

Dugongs · 29/12/2024 10:31

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 07:20

You're wrong. Beneficial interest in a property can only be claimed by a partner in a relationship, a child of the legal owner, or someone who contributes to the property in non-monetary ways, such as taking care of it. OP's so- called friend is none of these. Furthermore , this interest would be gained over a long period of time, not a matter of weeks.

Thanks for correcting me.

andthat · 29/12/2024 10:53

JC03745 · 27/12/2024 01:37

@andthat What relevance does your husband having an affair have with the OP's situation???

@JC03745 think you’ve quoted the wrong person there.

No affairs here!

JC03745 · 29/12/2024 11:01

@andthat Apologies.

Incenseda · 29/12/2024 11:24

She's not a lodger.
She's a grifter.
No way would I give her 6 weeks.
More foolishness that she will only see as weakness and proof of what mugs you and your husband are.

Get her shit together and get her out.
I would be involving the police if she gets abusive.

I wouldn't be protecting any non existent friendship.
She is nothing but a waste of space an a parasite in your home.
Get her out.

Serensnanna · 29/12/2024 11:32

ReadingSoManyThreads · 26/12/2024 23:46

You were wrong to give her six weeks notice. That is WAY TOO LONG.

You had the benefit of her being a lodger, rather than a tenant, you could have given her no notice, not that I agree with that, but one week's notice would have been enough.

Doesn't even sound like she's paying you lodgings?

Get her out by the weekend of 4th January. This cannot carry on until the end of January.

Don't forget though this is Christmas / New Year, hard to sort out anything ( job/ place to stay ) until back to normal..
But then she has to go ASAP. I'd be ringing the Council myself !

PorridgeEater · 29/12/2024 11:38

"Gone sour" is putting it lightly. I feel for you and you are not the first person in this sort of position.
Take no notice of the suicide threats - they are just manipulation and mean nothing.
I have a friend who had someone in their house who would not leave after being given notice. I don't know all the details but in the end the person went outside and they did not let him back in (he can't have had a key) - I don't know what happened to his stuff.
I also know someone else who let someone share their flat "while the person found somewhere to live" and they will not leave. In their case there are additional circumstances which make it more difficult but it has to be dealt with.
In your case you have to make it clear the lodger has no right of access to your home - I agree with those who said it would be useful to have a letter stating this to show to the council. Would you consider a Solicitor's letter? - legal advice might be worth it?
Good luck in dealing with this.

PorridgeEater · 29/12/2024 11:40

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 09:31

Not true. Even with "excluded occupiers" (as defined under housing law) which OP's friend's housing status as a house guest is, you are still required to give "reasonable" notice. If OP's friend was a lodger (another type of "excluded occupier") paying rent, reasonable notice would typically be the frequency with which they pay their rent e.g. weekly or monthly. OP's friend isn't paying rent so it would be reasonable to give her a week's notice. However, OP and her DP very generously gave her verbal notice of six weeks and this is due to expire in eight days' time on 6th January when OP can put her out with her belongings (and if she creates merry hell they can call the police for help with a breach of the peace).
OP's "friend" could have made a homeless application to the local authority as soon as she lost her former home (you can make an application up to 56 days ahead of actual homelessness). She could also have made a claim for UC as soon as she lost her job (and she would have been eligible for the housing element to cover, or at least contribute towards, the rent on a new place once she found somewhere). Once in receipt of UC (it takes five weeks from application to first payment) she could also have applied for help with the deposit and first month's rent from the LA in the form of a Discretionary Housing Payment (DHP). Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like she's done any of this, which is a pity because she would be in a much better position on 6th January if she had.
It is the LA's Housing Options Team's responsibility to help the "friend" with housing (not social services) - they have two duties: "prevention" and "relief". Part of the prevention duty usually involves speaking to the "landlord" of where they're living now to see if they can negotiate a way for them to stay, but with a house guest who's overstayed their welcome this conversation would be very short (if it even happens at all) and, of course, OP and her DP are under no obligation whatsoever to extend her stay any further.

Seems like useful advice to me.

tornscone · 29/12/2024 12:06

Put her stuff in the car boot.
Drop her off outside Travelodge.
Do not pay for the room - she is rolling in it having paid zero rent and bills.
Block and delete.
The end.

tornscone · 29/12/2024 12:08

If she threatens suicide give her some laxatives to overdose on.

SoMuchBadAdvice · 29/12/2024 14:39

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 09:31

Not true. Even with "excluded occupiers" (as defined under housing law) which OP's friend's housing status as a house guest is, you are still required to give "reasonable" notice. If OP's friend was a lodger (another type of "excluded occupier") paying rent, reasonable notice would typically be the frequency with which they pay their rent e.g. weekly or monthly. OP's friend isn't paying rent so it would be reasonable to give her a week's notice. However, OP and her DP very generously gave her verbal notice of six weeks and this is due to expire in eight days' time on 6th January when OP can put her out with her belongings (and if she creates merry hell they can call the police for help with a breach of the peace).
OP's "friend" could have made a homeless application to the local authority as soon as she lost her former home (you can make an application up to 56 days ahead of actual homelessness). She could also have made a claim for UC as soon as she lost her job (and she would have been eligible for the housing element to cover, or at least contribute towards, the rent on a new place once she found somewhere). Once in receipt of UC (it takes five weeks from application to first payment) she could also have applied for help with the deposit and first month's rent from the LA in the form of a Discretionary Housing Payment (DHP). Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like she's done any of this, which is a pity because she would be in a much better position on 6th January if she had.
It is the LA's Housing Options Team's responsibility to help the "friend" with housing (not social services) - they have two duties: "prevention" and "relief". Part of the prevention duty usually involves speaking to the "landlord" of where they're living now to see if they can negotiate a way for them to stay, but with a house guest who's overstayed their welcome this conversation would be very short (if it even happens at all) and, of course, OP and her DP are under no obligation whatsoever to extend her stay any further.

There is no rent, no payment, no agreement. She is a trespasser. Change the front door lock - what court is going to order that she is readmitted to the property and on what basis?

Yes the situation is a clusterfuck, but trying to force a clusterfuck into some logical legal solution is only going to result in more pain. And in spite of your fine theories SS never act until no one else will.

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 15:44

SoMuchBadAdvice · 29/12/2024 14:39

There is no rent, no payment, no agreement. She is a trespasser. Change the front door lock - what court is going to order that she is readmitted to the property and on what basis?

Yes the situation is a clusterfuck, but trying to force a clusterfuck into some logical legal solution is only going to result in more pain. And in spite of your fine theories SS never act until no one else will.

These aren't my "fine theories" - it's the law. Try learning it.
The term "excluded occupier" refers to a particular housing status under housing law. OP's former friend is a house guest (a type of "excluded occupier") and is there at OP's invitation. She is not trespassing until OP tells her to leave. OP and her DP generously gave her six weeks' notice towards the end of November which expires on 6th January. If the grifter former friend doesn't leave by that date, then she will be a trespasser (or earlier if OP now tells her she wants her to leave sooner than the 6th). There is no need to involve any court in this - OP does not need a court order to make an excluded occupier leave. If, however, the former friend doesn't leave willingly and without trouble, OP may need the assistance of the police to avoid a breach of the peace.
And again you've mentioned Social Services - SS are NOT responsible for rehousing the homeless - the LA's Housing Options Team is.

2Rebecca · 29/12/2024 15:51

This reply has been withdrawn

Message withdrawn - posted on wrong threaad

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 15:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn - posted on wrong threaad

Posted on the wrong thread?

2Rebecca · 29/12/2024 15:52

Added to wrong thread as they changed places so I’ve reported it

SoMuchBadAdvice · 29/12/2024 15:58

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 15:44

These aren't my "fine theories" - it's the law. Try learning it.
The term "excluded occupier" refers to a particular housing status under housing law. OP's former friend is a house guest (a type of "excluded occupier") and is there at OP's invitation. She is not trespassing until OP tells her to leave. OP and her DP generously gave her six weeks' notice towards the end of November which expires on 6th January. If the grifter former friend doesn't leave by that date, then she will be a trespasser (or earlier if OP now tells her she wants her to leave sooner than the 6th). There is no need to involve any court in this - OP does not need a court order to make an excluded occupier leave. If, however, the former friend doesn't leave willingly and without trouble, OP may need the assistance of the police to avoid a breach of the peace.
And again you've mentioned Social Services - SS are NOT responsible for rehousing the homeless - the LA's Housing Options Team is.

You didn't read my post, I said change the locks whilst she is out.

AngelicKaty · 29/12/2024 16:09

SoMuchBadAdvice · 29/12/2024 15:58

You didn't read my post, I said change the locks whilst she is out.

No, you didn't write that. You wrote, quite plainly for all to read:
"There is no rent, no payment, no agreement. She is a trespasser. Change the front door lock - what court is going to order that she is readmitted to the property and on what basis?
Yes the situation is a clusterfuck, but trying to force a clusterfuck into some logical legal solution is only going to result in more pain. And in spite of your fine theories SS never act until no one else will."
Try adopting this maxim into your life: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."