Is it unreasonable to expect a 5 year old to occupy himself for periods of time?!

[Overwhelmed123]

My DS5 has never been good at occupying himself. Eg this morning he woke up, we had a cuddle and a chat, then I said I'm going to have a shower. He had a huge meltdown that he had noone to play with.
This isn't unusual.
If I say I want some time alone and he needs to occupy himself he'll just sit there hugging his teddy and stare at me. I normally put up with it, empathise and then firmly tell him he needs to give me some space to look after myself (which works)...but today I just felt too empty to listen to him cry over such a trivial need of mine.

I did train him to occupy himself for short periods of time and had words with him about accomodating other people's needs....and he got...okay...at it...but since school started he's reverted back to type...and this morning I just lost my tether as I haven't had a minute to myself for 10 days...
...I feel like this puts a lot of strain on me and DH ...
...is it normal at 5?

My absolute dream would be if we could have a couple of hours in the morning where I could shower, exercise and journal while he's in the same room pottering around with whatever he enjoys...and then we can convene and play together for the rest of the day...but at the moment it's such hard work to get even 10- 20 minutes 🙈

He doesn't like watching TV, and if I put an audiobook on he'll only listen to it if I'm with him, he doesn't like colouring or drawing or Lego either. Almost all the games he'll get into and actually focus on require interaction. He can focus for hours if he's not being asked to do something alone - eg played monopoly for 5 hours on holiday one day.

He loves cutting paper so if I had given him a pile before my shower it would have given me a few minutes respite but I don't feel like it's unreasonable to ask him to find something to do himself. Or he loves sorting numbers out so I could have given him some numbers to put in order - again though, the "lonely" feeling means he only focuses on something he enjoys, it I'm not there, for a few minutes. Its a problem in the classroom too...he's fine with 1:1 attention (the teacher takes it in turns to teach each child 1:1) but struggles to focus on something if the teacher isn't with him....which is the majority of the day! He just spends the whole time eavesdropping on the other 1:1 lessons.

It's really difficult for me to relate to him as I spent hours playing on my own as a child and would have been a bit flustered if I hadn't had that space!

I think boys are clingy though??

My DD5 can occupy herself, however there's usually a tv or switch console involved! When she wants to play though we play with her, or she likes chatting while she's in the bath.

She generally is happy to occupy herself but knows we are there if she needs/wants us!

She's not a clingy child, never has been but she's recently been getting a little clingy due to me being pregnant and her being our whole world the last 5 years!

I don't think you are asking for too much. I am a single mum so my daughter has to have periods where I need to do things. So she has to entertain herself. She is coming up to 5.

I don't know if this is helpful but a few things she has enjoyed over the last couple of days..

• Set of 20 stampers from Amazon and blank note pad, stamping them, organising them etc

• kinetic sand, you can get ice cream sets ext and they love them.

• I pad

2 hours is a bit of a reach. You should get 30-45 minutes to shower and get ready. If you want to exercise or journal you need to get up before him or wait till he goes to bed.

I posted before you mentioned that SEN was a possible concern but that was in the back of my mind as I replied.

Very very basically forward chaining would be getting him to start an activity independently then joining in with him once he'd started, backward chaining would be starting the activity with him then withdrawing and him carrying on with it independently. There's a more to it than that obviously but that's the basic idea. We use a mix of forward and backward chaining approaches depending on the activity and at what point DS struggles with something.

He's got all of these things! But will only play when I'm with him. Even the iPad 🙈 I'll keep trying. It's nice to know that (most) posters think it's a reasonable ask

The "need" for constant adult attention that is) and nothing we've done to help seems to have changed things. He also struggles to make friends his own age.

Because you haven't equipped him with the necessarily tools - he is around adults 24/7 in you and his dad therefore it's not a stretch to see that he is like this at school because that's what he gets at home.

Did you socialise him with children from a young age? Did he go to nursery or pre school? Or was he home until he started school??

What time does DS go to bed? Can't you shower then? Honest question not trying to come across as snarky.

Thank you!

In that case I think you need to see it as 'can't' not 'won't' and plan around it with DH so that you both get a break. I looked after DS and took him to the park this morning while DH did something on the computer, then I went for a walk with one of our teenagers while DH played with DS this afternoon. (We do often do things all together too but everyone was tired today after Christmas and DS didn't want to go for the walk). We also use iPad time as respite and DS has an hour a day after lunch and sometimes a bit more time later on while I cook. I really sympathise though, it is hard.

Yeh like I've said previously 2 hrs is the dream but he can't manage 10-20 mins at the moment which concerns me

He went to nursery, then preschool and it was the same concerns there. Eg wouldn't play with the other children . If they had tables of activities out would only go and explore if an adult took him and sat with him. Etc
We also do lots of playdates

I had to, when l was that age, but l'm in my mid sixties now and our circumstances were very different.
My grandma lived with us, she was in her seventies and in ill health so l'd be sat down with a colouring/drawing book, pens and crayons, and told not to make a noise. Understandably, and l was an only child, to it was easy enough not to play noisily when all you're doing is drawing or colouring in.
My mam never played with me (l imagine she'd be looking after my grandma, her mam) but my dad did, and my dad used to take out on walks/on my bike.
My cousin says much the same thing, except her dad was ill, and her mam worked (mine didn't). She was the youngest of three, but by about 20 years, so pretty much in the same boat as me.
We were just left to get on with it back then. I think that's likely why we're both quite creative and like reading.

I can. But as several PPs have suggested am worried I'm not teaching him an essential skill

I don't think it's unreasonable either. My nieces and nephews who are 5-6 do occupy themselves for at least an hour on their own daily, but usually in their room rather than in the same room as their parents.
Our 3 year old can stay up to an hour in his room and play with duplos / his cars / books, not every day but 2-3 times a week maybe.
It would be very difficult to achieve being in the same room though, we can do 20-30 mins but only at specific times of the day.

Thanks. I just wonder whether it's nature or nurture like some PPs have said

Kindly, I think you are babying him a little bit. He can have a tantrum, he’ll just have to deal with it.

Does he like jigsaws? We had a lot of success with jigsaws, and with other "closed ended" activities that had a clear finishing point - so things that DS could complete by himself rather than open ended "play with this" activities which left him a bit lost!

I did have to work on setting activities up for him for much longer than I'd needed to with my older child. But gradually he got the hang of it (and now he is a teenager and goes hours without speaking to me).

Also try a visual timetable and a now/next board so he knows what's coming next. Work on his understanding of timings, I can't recommend timers enough (we had about 10 of them at one stage, giant sand timers and digital beep timers!).

You should be able to have a shower and leave a five year old alone. I have a 3 year old and he will sit and watch tv or play in his bedroom while I have a shower. I think 2 hours is a lot but 15-20 mins should be do-able otherwise you and DH plan do that he can look after DC for half an hour before he goes out so you fan have a shower.

Ah, if I ask DS to be in a different room he just spends the whole time crying 🙈

No, he doesn't like jigsaws either 🙈 but I think giving him specific tasks would help

A 5 year old should be able to be left in front of a TV with breakfast while you shower and get dressed, yes.

It's a reasonable expectation at five. We built up gradually with a few minutes from very early on eg letting her hold a sieve or spoon or something in a bouncy chair or the playpen whilst I unloaded the dishwasher. There's been a period of time every single day since birth when no one's been interacting with her. Obviously only a very few minutes early on, but it builds up.

I know mine was easily occupying herself for a couple of hours at five as that was during Covid and made it much easier to manage work as well. She could do it at four too.

We did a toy rotation so there was something "new" to play with each week. Had pile of books, paper and pens available. Used the Groclock nap setting so she knew when to count down to, after the sun came up we'd then play a game together.

I don’t want to be ‘that’ person but are there any other adhd concerns? My son is autistic and adhd and sounds very similar with the inability to be alone, incredibly intense interaction all day, can’t play but then can obsess and fixate on things like numbers and cutting paper…
what does he play with you? And yes you should definitely be able to shower! Slowly little bits of time at a go “mummy will do this for two minutes look you can see me” and come back, then can increase. This is if it’s separation anxiety.

There’s a book called ‘I’m almost never bored’ by Julia Donaldson which is really good.

I hated the role play on the floor with dolls and action stuff etc, I did it by "I will play for x minutes then I need to go put the dish washer on etc, you carry on playing"
they do learn. Go do jobs, walk off, be firm.

"you need to go clean your room/put x away etc" give him a task to do... while you shower or whatever then tell him you will check if after if its done, tons of praise

boring but it will work!!

good luck