Exh left kids alone - handhold

[userfriendly55]

NC for this.

my 2 children have just got home from a weekend with their dad. My eldest who is nearly 10 told me that their dad left them in his house to go to the Tesco express in his village. It is very close to his house but by the time he would have got there, done the shopping and got back I estimate he’d have left them for a good 25 minutes. our youngest is nearly 7.

He has done this before a couple of years ago. I went mad and exh promised not to do it again. Yet here we are. I know they are older now so I’m not quite as angry but I’m still a bit angry and upset. Our youngest is very accident prone. The irony is is that my exh is supposedly very risk averse and hasn’t been taking them out of the house much because of the storms, but thinks it is ok to leave a not yet 7 year old home alone!!

I have started to leave our nearly 10 year old for short periods to build up independence but I have NEVER left the younger one too.

AIBU to be angry still? I just don’t know what to do or say. If I message ex we will end up just arguing and I’m not convinced it will achieve anything.

Meanwhile in the rest of the world young children get themselves to and from school alone. We are such a fearful nation.

It's very context dependent though isn't it? Throughout most of the world and most of human history the idea that 6-10 year olds couldn't be left in a safe house for half an hour unsupervised would be ridiculous, it's only Western English-speaking countries in the last 20-30 years that hold that belief.
I doubt your 8 year old is fundamentally different to a German 8 year old or a Japanese 8 year old.

10 year old fine (most kids round here get a door key when they start secondary school & let themselves in for short periods of time). I wouldn’t leave a 10 year old responsible for a 6 year old. However all I think this warrants is a conversation with Ex & kids that maybe it’s a bit soon for eldest to watch the younger for longer than 5-10 mins, and do they all have a plan for an emergency.

I appreciate your concern but it's fine. He would leave the house immediately, rather than faff for 10 minutes. Exit routes are planned and we are clear that his safety rather than the house or possessions is his only concern. A phone would not help in these circumstances.
We also minimise the risk so no using the cooker, hob, toaster, tumble drier etc while I'm out and I have lovely snacks prepared so that he's not tempted to. He's a sensible kid. Just does his homework then watches TV. I'm proud of him and have total confidence that he can deal with stuff.

Yanbu Op though I agree that you don’t need a hand hold.

There are a lot of very neglectful parents (who in some cases were clearly neglected themselves) falling over themselves to tell you how early they were left alone. They are just trying to justify their shit parenting. The person who claims that all 5 year olds were left alone in the 90s for example. Yes maybe her parent and her friends parents were utter scumbags who were very lucky not to be investigated for child neglect but leaving 5 and 6 year olds home alone has not been normal for many years. I’m not even sure it was common pre war tbh.

Neglectful parenting isn’t acceptable anymore. A parent’s job is to prevent their children coming to harm. If you’re not able to decide what’s an acceptable level of risk then that’s your issue.

Hardly anyone except the majority of people on the thread 🤔 have you considered your opinion isn’t always the only right one?

It’s this for me - the responsibility of the older one for the younger one, and the younger one being too young. Leaving a 10yo alone for a quick trip to the corner shop is no problem.

Honestly it’s not fine. It really isn’t. Electrical fires happen all the time. The fumes can render you unconscious before flames even take hold. You can’t leave a child alone in a house with no way of ringing 999.

How will he call 999 if he's unconscious?

You do you. But I cannot fathom someone leaving their young child alone with no way of calling for help in an emergency. There are a million circumstances where he needs help and can’t leave the house to get it. It’s the thing of nightmares.

hmmm, like others have said, i don't see what you can do about this. I left my eldest alone for a few minutes from age 9, but not with his younger sibling. Like others say, you can teach them what to do in case of emergencies.

This!! What if the 6 year old falls and splits head open? Chokes on food? Any medical emergency- how can you place that responsibility on a 10 year old?

No excuse for leaving young kids alone

Children in Europe walk to school (and catch trains) alone from age five.

SN aside, not leaving a child alone in their own home until they're 13 is absolutely ridiculous.

If the fumes will render you unconscious then you won't be able to use the phone, will you?

In the event of a fire the correct advice to a child is “get out of the house asap, don’t hang around making phone calls or trying to find the mobile that mum says she left at the back of the living room cabinet under the blue shoebox. Just get out.”

I agree that a child left alone should
have the means to make an emergency phone call, in the event of injury etc. But fires aren’t the reason.

Are you being intentionally obtuse or…? Can you not picture a situation where you’re aware of a fire or smoke but you’re unable to get out due to fumes, smoke or flames? Would you ring 999 or just not bother?
Why do people think that you will always be able to escape from a house fire?

If you can't get out due to smoke, fumes and flames, how are you going to be able to find and use a phone?

The advice in the event of a fire is to get OUT. Not to faff around trying to make a phone call.

And honestly, if a fire is so bad that you can't see or leave the house, then (sadly) I don't think that being able to call the emergency services is going to make much difference to the outcome.

Well one of mine needed surgery after tripping over something in his bedroom.
Do you imagine children never hurt themselves?

If you can't get out, there is also advice about how to make yourself as safe as possible (closing doors, blocking gaps, getting to a window etc).

When the fire brigade visited our Cubs, they told them to sit in the middle of their bedroom floor with the door shut as rhen they are immediately obvious to the searchers.

But it comes back to... while its not illegal to leave a child alone, if something happens are you are found to have put them in danger, you can be prosecuted.

That will make you feel so much better when your young children die in a house fire when you locked them in and left them alone.

It's normal for children to walk home from our school from age 7 which I'd say is very high risk with shit drivers and known perverts nearby. It's strange that I'd feel really uncomfortable leaving a child that age home alone at all. I definitely wouldn't have a 10 year old be responsible for a younger child.

Do they though? I'm in Europe, nobody I know would dream of that.

From the title I thought you were going to say they were toddlers, I do think 9 & 6 is on the borderline and I probably wouldn't do it but I wouldn't be up in arms about it.

You need a handhold? Seriously?