AIBU in thinking this could spread rapidly to other schools? Parents have to come into school to change NT DCs if they soil themselves.

[CwmYoy]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/schools-tell-parents-if-your-34349942

It's been a long time coming but I can see it will spread now there are fewer TAs.

As long as SEN needs are taken into account I think it's a good idea.

There are three types of children this impacts as far as I can see:

1. SEN - there's a multitude of issues with why this will be problematic for parents already struggling to navigate an inadequate school system.
2. NT children with a bladder or bowel condition.
3. Children who's parents haven't pushed potty training and have effectively neglected their kids.

This policy lets down children in all three of those categories - because NONE of those issues are the child's fault.

One of my DC falls into category 2. She's very clever, very self aware and in top groups for all subjects in her class (reading 2 years ahead of her age), but according to a lot of the posters above shouldn't be entitled to an education because she sometimes has accidents and is being seen by a paediatric consultant for it.

To @oakleaffy and others who believe toileting accidents should be considered "shameful", let's hope incontinence never comes for you post childbirth or menopause or old age. But perhaps it's easier to sneer at some unknown children over the Internet than to have empathy for something you could well experience yourself at some point in the future.

Seeing as it takes 3 years to diagnose autism this is awful.

Great post 👍 I agree

Plus, one of the things I discovered from having an awful experience potty training DS is that MN is very unsympathetic and unpleasant to and about children with continence issues. I think the real world if you like tends to be kinder on this topic.

If incontinence comes for me, I'll be cleaning it up myself.

Teachers and TA's should not be changing shitty nappies under any circumstance. They have such a heavy load already. Parents should be made to come in every time nappies need changing. It is the parents responsibility to toilet train their DC.

Continence issues (when medical or SEN) is different to just hasn't been taught though. I think people are pretty understanding about the former.

I imagine most people have sympathy for a child who has soiled himself. The reality though is there isn't the staffing or facilities for dealing with this in a school setting.

A child with a medical reason for soiling imo should have a care plan in place that doesn't divert the teacher from her job. Those without a medical reason other than the odd accident do need the parents to deal with it in some way.

I suppose it's yet another thing adding to the severe teacher and support staff recruitment and retention crisis.
21 years in (primary teacher, SEN specialist) but left this week. The feeling of the weight finally being lifted is magical ✨️

I’m quite surprised at this. My youngest started reception in 2004 in our village school, so 20 years ago. They would not accept any child in nappies, not even with SEN.

They said they didn’t have the resources. There was a girl at youngest playschool who was in nappies, but she didn’t start until Y1 when she was dry.

I think it’s fine to include those children if they will be properly cared for. But I suspect they might not be, which is so sad.

Out of interest how long have you been an EYFS teacher? I started earlu 80s and it was rare for for a child to start nursery age 3 without being toilet trained barring the occasional accident. If they weren't toilet trained the place was deferred. By the time I retired in 2015 I had 3 in Reception who were in nappies.

What has changed?

That is exactly the issue. In a Terry nappy a DC felt wet and uncomfortable so they stopped wetting their nappy. Now in disposable nappies the DC don't feel wet or uncomfortable so carry on wetting their nappies. In the past most DC were dry and clean by 2 now many are 4 or 5 and still soiling nappies. In the past a child starting school in a nappy was unheard of now it seems almost common place. Put the kids back in Terry nappies for a few months at about 18-20 months and they would soon stop wetting the nappies and go on the potty or toilet with a toddler seat.

@CaptainMyCaptain Respect for the teaching profession, mainly.

I honestly don’t want to sound sarcastic but surprised the law has changed in twenty years?

I think that if you think of the practicalities, by the time the child is taken to reception and parent is called and by the time parent gets to school it's going to be at least 20 minutes said child is sitting soiled. I think that is pretty poor and dignity stripping.

In addition to this so many toileting issues are related to guilt and shame and a situation like this might cause a child to withhold stool holding it in the bowel longer making constipation worse and making the problem worse. Most advice around incontinence is to not discipline but to encourage independence around cleaning up. Most children age 5 could get their own trousers and pants off. Perhaps parent could be called to come in and meet them in the toilet at this stage rather than them sitting soiled.

I'm.thankful neither of mine have accidents but I know they are not rare in early years. I would rather be called in and help but I'm aware I have a lighter schedule than most.

Yes.
Ought to be brought back.
Didn't know these people's job actually includes changing the children, didn't realise there are still children in nappies...wow.
Fortunately I never wanted to start a family, so what's the reason for this?
🤔

YANBU, teachers are professionals and their time shouldn't be taken away from the other children in the group to change nappies. (Obviously this doesn't apply to children with additional needs).

I recently read that 20% of kids are starting school in nappies, it's sheer laziness from parents who think that it's a nurseries or schools job to teach their child absolutely everything.

The French schooling system is specifically aligned with toilet training. You can start Maternelle from 2 if trained, usually by 3, but if your kids aren't trained they can wait until 6.

I'm interested.

Where does it say that?

Equality Act 2010

That must have been a rule peculiar to your child's school. I used to have full time nursery children aged 3 or 4 in a school nursery class in the 80s.

You might not have the capacity to understand you have been incontinent..

That’s a disgusting statement @TheForestCalls and should be deleted.

Well, I would if it happened after childbirth or menopause. In much older age, maybe not, but that's still a while off and there will be workers in place who know that is part of the deal. Unlike teachers.

I had a child toilet trained at 2 (no credit to me, they did it themselves just like that). A few years later developed issues for medical reasons. So I know what it's like.

Good!
Teachers absolutely should not be picking up the lazy parents slack.

If your child is NT with no physical disabilities, then there’s absolutely no reason why they would be in nappies during the day at school age!

Was just about to say this. There is no obligation for parents to accept this. What if they are working and at a distance? Not everyone is twiddling their thumbs five minutes away from school.

While they are at school it is a school responsibility. ERIC have good guidance if anyone needs the right wording to reply/challenge, especially if you have a child with SEN or medical condition. Our son has continence issues, god we would have had to live at school to deal with every accident. The child can get a health care plan drawn up if needs be:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supporting-pupils-at-school-with-medical-conditions--3