AIBU in thinking this could spread rapidly to other schools? Parents have to come into school to change NT DCs if they soil themselves.

[CwmYoy]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/schools-tell-parents-if-your-34349942

It's been a long time coming but I can see it will spread now there are fewer TAs.

As long as SEN needs are taken into account I think it's a good idea.

If they are not able to do any of that at four then I would argue that regardless of the reasons, they have quite significant developmental delay

Then we wouldn't have got them largely clean inside the first term or had parents saying they didn't know it was their job. But obviously a percentage have needs.

I don’t believe that your average reception class has eight or so sets of parents saying ‘I didn’t know that was my job.’ I just don’t believe it.

No I don't.

it takes them time to learn they should be embarrassed especially in environments where others are not allowed to make fun of them (unlike in the old days).

If you believe that children 'should' feel embarrassed and allowing them to be 'made fun of' teaches them a lesson then you shouldn't be working with kids.

Whether or not a child can or can't do any of the things you described is not their fault. Be angry at the parents, treat the child with dignity. FFS.

School staff should never make a child feel embarrassed for having an accident. Whatever the reason children should feel confident to ask staff to help and know it will be dealt with respectfully.

Where are the facilities to change these dc

I remember how primitive the facilities were in primary with a cold water sink Jin classroom

Most (all?) schools will have a disabled toilet which is bigger and one cubicle so privacy is maintained. Often they have a pull cord and possibly hoist. I think they'd be in breach of the Equality Act if not.

SIL the ultimate lazy parent.
Her son (DN) and mine 8 weeks apart.

Mine started Nursery at 29 mos (Sept), fully potty trained & ready for nursery..

Family Xmas holiday at Nanna’s house (she lives abroad), it’s End Dec now. Both boys together - My DS is 33 mos, DN is 31 mos.

Nanna is comparing the boys - she cannot believe DN is still in nappies all day, and has a bottle at bedtime. SIL says - he’s starting nursery in January - they will potty train him. (Nanna is shocked and encouraging SIL to hurry start potty training now, saying he needs be trained before start nursery in 10 days).

Next day, Nanna, DH, SIL go out for the day and I offer to watch the kids.
Some time later, I notice poops on the floor, little brown balls across the carpet. SIL had left her son, w no nappy and no underpants (obv she doesn’t have any underpants) No change of clothes, no nothing,

She thinks this is potty training ! Letting me have her kid with now pissy poop shorts and no clean clothes. Lucky I had some nappies, and clothes but was WTF? I put him back in a nappy. Is SIL such an idiot, this lazy ? Can she be bothered to read a book, go online? Or does she think kid will figure it out? She is that lazy parent, changing nappy so much easier? Easier than spending time teaching your child??

All were concerned DN might have a developmental delay etc as he seemed so behind with speaking, still w a bottle (and she couldn’t be bothered weaning). He’s at a top Uni now, guess he figured out how to raise himself as him mum was not bothered!

The tiny rural school my children attend does not. I was really surprised when I discovered this a couple of years ago. Also has corridors too narrow to allow a wheelchair through and steps all over the place. It's a 200 year old listed building. I don't know how you reconcile the Equality Act with local planners.

They DONT have to be at school though. That's not the law

Come off it. My ‘fevered wet dream’ (delightful!) is for children to be educated. The people who are causing humiliation and harm of an ‘actual child’ are the ‘actual parents’. If they don’t feel shame, then they are failing parents and it is probably one of many poor parenting decisions they are making. Therefore, the kindest thing for the child is for social services to intervene. This would allow the school’s focus to be placed on education and helping children with genuine difficulties (not just parents who can’t be bothered).

Oh I see. You're proposing that a child who is not potty trained be mandatorily homeschooled instead?

They do have a statutory right to be educated in a school
And tbh if they are being neglected by their parents is best they are in school.

Seriously I have lots of SEND experience and amongst other things I am fully Portage trained....children don't learn these skills in a few weeks if there is a reason for them not having them and observing interactions with parents and child tells you the dynamics. Rather like the ones who haven't had a dummy all day including naps but have them shoved in from parents pocket at first sight.

I mean like I said I knew people raised by literal heroin addicts fully neglected who knew not to soil themselves in school. I think it has nothing to do with parenting at that age any kid still pooing themself at school has to be special ed.

Even in the days of encouraging kids to be nice to each other any kid pooing themself is still sadly going to be singled out for the smell alone. I used to volunteer in a school and there was a boy with bladder issues who'd sometimes wet himself and no amount of anti bullying lessons would stop the other kids mentioning it.

Fine I'm lying of course I bow down to your experience I know nothing 30 plus years has taught me zilch. I didn't say every parent just that it was common as are the other weak comments they make.

Of course I lie I'll go tell the head next term sorry head the children we got out of nappies are obviously not really out of nappies and must be shitting themselves unbeknown to anyone, a woman on MN says they all need an EHCP and your shit at your job.

The people who are causing humiliation and harm of an ‘actual child’ are the ‘actual parents’.

No. The people causing humiliation and harm of an actual child are the ones who 'hope that teachers will refuse' to change a child when they are dirty.

Get social services involved also by all means. But as unfair as it is that they have to do it, if a teacher or TA or school.policy allows a child to remain in dirty clothes on the basis that it isn't their job, or they don't have time, then they should be prosecuted for neglect.

You hope that children should be educated. But only the ones whose parents can be 'bothered'. The others, not so much.

I have no idea what you are talking about I was only responding to the singular comment that I quoted in my last comment.

After knowing people raised by heroin addicts and alcoholics who knew not to soil themselves at school I find it hard to believe there's kids in reception (let alone year 1 which someone claimed to know loads of year one children with lazy parents in nappies) who are still in nappies that aren't special ed merely because their parents are lazy. Sorry I just don't buy it trust me you don't get more lazy than a heroin addict.

And no I'm not coping for my own laziness my kids were all out of nappies at 2.

I could choose to feel superior about that but I know enough about child development to know a "neuro typical" 4 year old would be super easy to toilet train, being a lazy parent doesn't come into it in fact having to change nappies at 4 when you could easily just tell your kid to use the toilet sounds the opposite of lazy to me

Sp my kids sen were diagnosed at 17 and 9. Where does this leave parents whose kids needs are undiagnosed?

Should I not have worked for my children's school years to be available if needed? If so, are universal credit going support parents of children who might have needs, to stay at home until they reach adulthood?

I have a fully registered co minder and an assistant which allows me to do other work....such as Assessing. But we do not work with more than 5 under 5 maximum. At the start of a school year children moving to Reception do half days I call in my assistant and co minder as needed if we don't need them we have capacity to support school. I am also Portage trained amongst many other things. When we started it was because we had experience of disabilities that then extended to bereavement work etc but yeah of course you won't believe anything I'm only a cm after all and we can't be trusted can we.

Parents need much more support and education than they are getting although some maybe lazy many just don't know and unfortunately have to rely on apps and Google rather than lived experience I'm there for everyone of my families because amazingly I like helping children

I didn't say it was a method of teaching them the post said a school age child would be embarrassed I'm saying but you only learn embarrassment through experience which they haven't had so are not going to say wow I must potty train myself this is rather embarrassing.
Parents need support but children don't need to be automatically labelled as having a SEND.

I don’t know about lying but I certainly think there’s some exaggeration. According to you, despite fifteen funded hours being available to all three year olds, around a third of your average reception class contains children starting having never been in a childcare setting, cannot put shoes on, have dummies and are in nappies. So much so that the school have appointed you to come in to support with this, which you do and admirably juggle with caring for toddlers. Unbelievable.

I agree if they’re not school ready they shouldn’t be there.
If there’s a one off accident by a child who is toilet trained they can clean themselves up, as they’re toilet trained. Then staff just need to direct them to or get them their / a spare set of clothes.
This is how it used to work in schools when I was there if someone wet themselves, for example, and when we had one teacher to 30 kids and no TA.