AIBU in thinking this could spread rapidly to other schools? Parents have to come into school to change NT DCs if they soil themselves.

[CwmYoy]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/schools-tell-parents-if-your-34349942

It's been a long time coming but I can see it will spread now there are fewer TAs.

As long as SEN needs are taken into account I think it's a good idea.

I worked on a school 20 years ago where this was the policy.

Is it controversial? It's what happened at my son's school when he was in Reception. I had to go once and sort him out. I don't expect a Reception teacher/TA to have to clear up my son's poo.

I don't think it happened at nursery but they had far more staff and were set up for toilet training etc.

My brother in law’s “nice” village school has had to employ TAs to assist with toilet training reception dc as so many weren’t toilet trained. Only a couple had special needs, the others were lazy parents. It’s shocking.

For those who do not have special needs, children should be toilet trained before they start school. Perhaps those parents who don't make the effort to ensure this would do so if they knew they had to come in and clear up, so to speak. Especially I'd expect if the dad was the one called.

Well I got called to change or collect my SEN child when he was in mainstream daily so they don't just do this to NT kids.

I would expect a school aged child without SEN could probably change themselves however? I remember having an accident in reception the embarrassment has stayed with me for life but I know I changed myself from the stash of stuff school had for that situation

I think they will find according to the ERIC guidelines that leaving a child they know to be soiled and or wet can be considered to be neglect .

I work in a school. Having to change children is part and parcel now of working in early years and in some cases beyond. It is undoubtedly an increasing issue but I don’t agree with making parents come in to change them. It’s just an unfortunate part of the job.

It’s all well and good saying “taking SEN into account” but SEN issues aren’t always known at 3/4/5.

If it’s a parenting issue then making parents come in could be counterproductive anyway. It risks alienating the parents.

settings need to work with parents to come up with the plan to best support the children to achieve the best outcomes.

Even when my own teenager was starting, it seemed like the policy was more that if a child wasn’t potty trained, they just waited to start school. Yes, there was the occasional accident, but that is different than still being in nappies.

I don’t know about this. I feel for teachers and the stress they’re under. However at the nursery and EYFS stage some SEN won’t have been identified yet. Lots of parents wouldn’t be able to leave work. I wouldn’t.

Difficult to see why there would be nappy changing involved unless there were additional needs. There would be an Intimate Care Policy and individual Plan.
It’s nothing new though. Toileting accidents for children without a Personal Care Plan have always necessitated a parent/carer coming in ime.
I could go into detail but <shrug> Poo Troll is a thing (not necessarily you, OP) but not giving fodder to passing trolls is wise in general.

It's illegal to say a non toilet trained child can't start school.

Daily? That’s awful. You must have felt so unsupported. I don’t know if a 3 year old without SEN could change themselves without adult help if they’d soiled themselves. Maybe a wee accident that just involved changing clothes.

My daughter wasn't ND but really struggled with toilet training. She was easily 10yo before she was fully dry amd stopped soiling and thankfully our primary school was amazing with her. Never made her (or me) feel bad for it and would just hand me a bio bag of yucky knickers carefully so as to save dignity.

God bless those teachers!!! I bought them a big selection of spare knickers to replace what we ended up using.

Not all children take to potty training easily. I have 3 kids, the other 2 were fine it was just my eldest who struggled and we never identified a reason why. She's 15 now, feels like a lifetime ago.

You can have a Need without a Diagnosis btw, so there doesn’t have to be any confusion about what’s permitted, or which child has a Plan. No staff can be compelled to change a child, so it would depend if the staff were available and willing to undertake a change. It’s advisable to have two staff when intimate care is involved, too.

I think this is a key point.

for the dignity of the child they should be supported to get changed as quickly as they can. They shouldn’t be made to feel as if they are a burden or it’s something to be embarrassed about.

the last thing you want is a child hiding the fact they have had an accident due to embarrassment or feeling like they are in trouble.

I really don't understand why so many parents are neglecting their dc to the point that they aren't toilet trained by the time they start school, nor why it seems to be acceptable these days( I'm not talking about nd children)

The families who are most struggling and least able to cope will be the ones who will suffer disproportionately from this.

I think this is reasonable for Reception kids. I expect school teachers to deal with an occasional accident but can't imagine they have capacity to deal with regular nappy changes.

Not sure it's fair for nursery kids though. What age do they start nursery in Wales? Won't some kids only just have turned 3? Many will be able to use the toilet by then but some will need a little more time.

I work in a school. It's all well and good saying "accounting for SEN", but the thing is, other than preschool (2/2.5 yos)all the little kids(or a bit older) still regularly in nappies that require daily changing DO have SEN.

Do accidents still happen? Of course, and that's from reception all the way up to y6. Hell , some adults have been known to rush home during bug season.

So saying "accounting for SEN" is just a handy sound bite to not sound totally twatty.

In my county it’s age 3. But you could be 3 on 31st August and then start nursery 2 days later so it is very young.

my daughter needed to be changed at school periodically up to year 1 due to chronic constipation and over flow. I’m guessing that would be acceptable as a medical need. It’s a tricky one because it there are no SEN and parents just haven’t potty trained then there really isn’t the staff numbers to change all the children who need changing as the numbers are ever growing.

We were on a train the other week and were assailed by an appalling stench.
A woman had got on with a large toddler and it was in desperate need of a nappy change.

The smell was so strong people were moving seats , but the train was one of those small ones with open carriages so the odour soon moved up the carriages.

The thought of changing a child’s pooey nappy that wasn’t my child would have me gagging .

It’s not fair to expect teachers to deal with dirty nappies and bottoms- or even wet ones.
Mainstream schools aren’t geared up for it.

I know of several children who are in years 2, 3 & 4 who deliberately wet or soil themselves when things don’t go their way. It’s another way of exerting control, something that seems to be becoming more noticeable in recent years.

One of my children had toileting issues due to SEN, another one had toilet issues for no apparent reason. I worked with the school and, although I offered to come in when anything happened with either, they never took me up on it. I did make sure both had a couple of sets of easy to put on clothes, wipes and carrier bags in their backpacks and encouraged them to change themselves with support if needed. I am forever grateful to the TAs that worked with them, they kept everything so discreet that no other child ever noticed or teased them (this went on up to and including year 4).

I think parents should be responsible for their children, there just aren’t enough TAs in schools anymore to, pardon the pun, mop these things up along with supporting SEN children.

So if the parents are at work an hours commute away, would the child just sit in the corner in dirty pants for an hour?

I don’t think teachers or TAs should be having to regularly wipe children.

A wee, a child should be able to be briefly supervised with some baby wipes to wipe off and change their own clothes with possible help for buttons.

A child regularly soiling themselves I honestly couldn’t expect a teacher to clean them. They are teachers not career assistants or nursery workers. They trained to teach. There should be a dedicated staff member for toileting cleaning issues or yes parents come in.

No wonder nobody wants to teach. Between lack of good leadership, poorly behaved children and being genuine bum wipers.

I agree op. Mainstream schools should not be having to deal with shitty nappies for school-age children.