to be annoyed at so much racism re “the boat people”

[NavyOrca]

A large hotel local-ish to us (around 10 miles away) is currently closed for bookings as it is being occupied by just under 400 asylum seekers.

Recently, in our village and a couple of neighbouring ones, there has been a spate of parcels being stolen from doorsteps. I’m sure you can all work out who has taken the blame for this….! Even though one of the perpetrators is known to be a local lad, born and bred in our village, some people are still blaming others..

The comments on Facebook community groups are disgusting.

Since when has it been acceptable to so readily stick the blame upon those literally fleeing their countries?

I honestly feel that as a human race, we are devolving.

Agree. And the title of refugee applies to a very small percentage, if any. Illegal migrants is the term you're looking for OP.

That's the problem. None of us can know what the difference is without the data. We're just left with insinuations.

By “insinuations” do you mean racism?

400 young men living together, no jobs unless illegal uber/deliveroo etc, not much hope of attracting a woman whilst in their situation, risk-taking personalities, often from cultures where women are not equal. I can feel sorry for the majority of them but still think it’s likely to be a disaster for the community.

@GretchenWienersHair

By “insinuations” do you mean racism?

Yes, partly. There's certainly that.

And also people (like you) name-calling it all as racism.

Both forms of prejudice.

Let's have the data and a more nuanced and grown-up debate.

Hear hear! 👏 They are taking from our system without ever contributing, Many are low value chancers after a new life here on benefits. Five years hence many will still be unable to speak English, not having made any effort to integrate.

Our individual wealth (GDP)per person is falling. As a result of mass migration the poor are getting poorer and our amenities are collapsing.
That's why the resentment.

If we went to their countries we would have to abide by their rules.... as is evidenced by that poor young British chap having just been jailed for sleeping with A 17yr old..... An 18-year-old British man sentenced to a year in prison for a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old British girl in Dubai.

Do they do the same here?

We now have the highest number of Sharia Courts in the west....what does that tell you?

Here we prioritise foreigners above our own. We don't know who these undocumented entitled chancers are!
The UK is now the benefits system for the world, broadcast far and wide.

Migration is supposed to enhance a nation NOT diminish it!

As I said before, be called “racist” isn’t an insult and not an example of name-calling. Being racist is insulting.

While I agree with all of your points about the data probably being useful, I absolutely will not be engaging in a “nuanced debate” with someone who thinks making “insinuations” based on race is only “partly” racist, and thinks that being called out on being a racist is some sort of harassment. I might as well go and debate with Tommy Robinson and his fans if I had the energy for all that.

Interested in the sharia courts - sources and data please?
Low value chancers - Sources and data please?
Our individual wealth (GDP)per person is falling. As a result of mass migration the poor are getting poorer and our amenities are collapsing - Sources and data please?
We prioritize foreigners above our own - Sources and data please?

I mean, I can’t even be arsed to debate your points with you (if you truly believe we have actual Sharia courts in the U.K., there is literally no point in trying to have any sensible discussion with you), but please, for the love of God, at least let one of you admit to being a raging racist.

If this isn’t the a blatantly racist post, I don’t know what is anymore.

“Low value”? We’re really at a point in society where we’re referring to a whole group of human beings as “low value” and still arguing that it’s “not racist”? Fuck me, if that’s not racist then I’m terrified to think what some of you would see as finally being racist enough to be called racist.

Behave.

Really.

With a properly-functioning asylum system, the answer is that the person coming from far away is escaping intolerable persecution.

We should support that for the same reason we provide ambulances for people in medical crisis, but not for less serious conditions. For the same reason that you'd save a child from drowning even if it ruined your suit, but you don't give your suit to each beggar you pass.

There's an argument that you should give your suit to a beggar, but it's not illegitimate to draw the line between that and the drowning child.

Many refugees go home, and many communities that have stayed have made immensely valuable contributions to Britain and are now just as British as anyone else.

The problem in my view is: i) there's abuse of the system. I'm also quite relaxed about economic migration but the very last economic migrants we should welcome are those who are willing to abuse the asylum system, ii) many genuine asylum seekers will also be from 'non-model' groups, and will also be traumatised, and may be expensive and difficult to integrate. They should not be turned away for that reason. That's the hardest problem in my view, and because it’s genuinely hard I think we should discuss it soberly and consider the views of everyone not just those who we consider to have the ‘right’ opinions.

Of course it causes mayhem when people arrive here in this way. Not to mention the risk to life of rescuers when they get into difficulty.

Have that group of migrants been given access to private medical services including dentists? Many have.

Bit of an over the top description of France.

@GretchenWienersHair

Being called a racist is certainly insulting. It may or may not be justified and it may or may not be harassment.

I think you'd be justifiably insulted if I called you a racist (I'm not saying this, to be clear).

The insinuation thing was my description of what you'd said about why people supported Ukrainians. My reading of it was that you were alleging racism but without saying it.

I'm saying that having crime worries about (say) Turkish people and not about Ukrainians might be prejudice or might be justified. Without the data we can't know.

Yup. Virtue signalling to the point of self harm.

Women and children mainly

But that university age man will have attended school and sat in classrooms with actual children. He’ll have been housed in foster homes with actual children.

Women and children use resources and infrastructure.

Women and children, statistically, don’t pose a threat of violence at anywhere near the same level as men.

The fact they work hard and contribute to the country? They aren't sitting around in hotels costing us millions. ?

Oh FFS

No debate allowable.

This is going full circle. Men are a threat to women and girls and those who pose the biggest threat are men they know. Let's focus on that and make vital changes.

People are complaining that asylum seekers are using up infrastructure and resources. Women and girls also use up resources.

A bit of a tangent but the "Shariah courts" thing is fascinating.

We have had Shariah councils, marriage tribunals and arbitration venues for decades and our courts will in many cases enforce their decisions. Same ideas as Beth Din and similar for other religions.

The crucial point being that they are contracted into, ie people can voluntarily submit to a particular forum, just like one can agree to binding arbitration.

It's not new. Whether it's worrying or not I don't know. As a JS Mill style classical liberal I think my instinct is to say it’s good that we have that option, though I imagine there are some decisions made in those systems that I'd be pretty uncomfortable with.