to be annoyed at so much racism re “the boat people”

[NavyOrca]

A large hotel local-ish to us (around 10 miles away) is currently closed for bookings as it is being occupied by just under 400 asylum seekers.

Recently, in our village and a couple of neighbouring ones, there has been a spate of parcels being stolen from doorsteps. I’m sure you can all work out who has taken the blame for this….! Even though one of the perpetrators is known to be a local lad, born and bred in our village, some people are still blaming others..

The comments on Facebook community groups are disgusting.

Since when has it been acceptable to so readily stick the blame upon those literally fleeing their countries?

I honestly feel that as a human race, we are devolving.

Because they don't speak French? Hence harder to get a job, make their way around in life generally. Because they know people in the Uk?
It may be safe but life might be much harder and their prospects impossible. A country where they speak the language and they have support means their lives may take a significantly different trajectory.

Indeed, we've moved on from no Jews, Irish, Black and now it's Muslims. Because every brown person is obviously one of those.

You know them all?

1. I don't think this happened.
2. If it did - he's a teenager - like kids doing A levels or in their first year at University. When I think of my son being in the position that many migrant teenagers are in it makes me want to cry. Many of them are very vulnerable and are wholly unsupported.
3. 'Boasting' - you mean he 'said'? I appreciate you want to vilify him, maybe just try to see him like you'd see middle class white teenagers who've had to leave everything they know to come and do shit jobs in a country where they're surrounded by people like you who despise them.

And hence why the issue can never be properly debated or addressed. Anybody raising concerns about the impact on their community is mindlessly labelled a racist. There is of course a legitimate and important debate that needs to take place given the impacts of health, education, housing, policing, just about everything but anybody who expresses concern is labelled racist (usually by people who have the privilege of not feeling the direct impact).

Sick of what?

What is "it"?

@JustAnotherPoster00

I think uneducated and racist people are just getting sick of it, to be honest

I agree that lack of education is some part of the problem, and racism too. But I disagree with your broad dismissal. So let me ask you:

If you think ignorance is what causes worries about immigrant crime, would you support publication of crime data broken down by national origin and immigration status of the perpetrator?

If not, why not?

If you worry that publication would encourage racists, why do you think that?

Expressing a concern about illegal economic migration does not make anyone a racist. It is a concern shared by many people from across the political spectrum. This nonsense about right wing rhetoric is just trying to silence those who would object to such a housing situation. Unfortunately when crimes are committed it’s far too easy to blame strangers or new comers. It’s human nature I’m afraid.

Rapid demographic change while standards of living plummet.

But it's rarely genuinely legitimate concern. No one raises any statistics, convictions or actual factual information. It's all "our daughters aren't safe anymore" because they have instantly profiled a group of people. On my local FB group someone shared a photo of three African looking men crossing a road. It had been eid, and they were in traditional dress. This is very rare to see, it certainly is not the norm. This photo was 'evidence' that "we cannot let our daughters onto the streets now", "things have changed", "we've been taken over", and lots of "they're getting fifty million in benefits". I recognized one of the men, he's a consultant cardiologist in our hospital. But due to racial profiling, these men had been declared paedophiles, rapists and fraudsters. That is what racism is.

To be accurate, the people arriving are asylum seekers, who may or may not be granted refugee status.

High trust cohesive societies are low crime. Everyone knows migration causes crime. There are sociological reasons for this. "Educate yourself" is dangerous advice because when people do they quickly encounter a very telling amount suppression of data around this.

I agree that lack of education is some part of the problem, and racism too. But I disagree with your broad dismissal. So let me ask you:
If you think ignorance is what causes worries about immigrant crime, would you support publication of crime data broken down by national origin and immigration status of the perpetrator?

The root cause is elements of the government, for political reasons. The media are used to disseminate this rhetoric, which incites fear into the people.
We should be concerned about crime, and addressing the causes. A huge percentage of the prison population are functionally illiterate, having learning disabilities and come from poverty. They are overwhelmingly white men. Do we have constant warnings about these people? It's about creating fear of the other, who can be recognized and profiled immediately.

Says someone who's username suggests they're off to the whitest part of the UK.

In the year ending March 2024, there were 38,546 irregular arrivals (Source: Government website)

How is this rapid demographic change, in a country of over 69 million people?

This leaves the standards of living. I get it, it's a tough time for many. But don't be fooled by opportunitic politicians into thinking people escaping war should be blamed for it.

And? Are only racists allowed to go to white areas? And it has nothing to do with the place btw! Not that that is relevant at all.

Because people who want to be angry about immigration could see one crime committed by an immigrant and take that as evidence for their argument. That's how hate and fear mongering works.

To answer my own question: I'd strongly support publication of such data (I think I'd publish a version adjusted by sex and age too). I think gathering and publishing data on important public policy issues is virtually always a good thing. I think the public can be trusted with such information.

What I'd expect to see is that many or most immigrant groups commit crime at a lower rate than the general population, some commit more, and a very few commit massively more: 30-50x would not surprise me, based on other countries' experience.

We can then have a debate that is informed. I think and hope that the end result would be an immigration system that is more open. Why? Because you can mitigate the bad effects of immigration (on crime, in this case) with quite targeted controls. Do that, and open-ish immigration turns from being a bit of a mixed bag to (in my view) extremely positive.

We've seen several European polities turn from very pro to very anti mass migration. I don't think it's volume that is the main problem. I think (as in so many areas of life), a fairly small reprehensible element get cover from the elites who only see the benefits to themselves, until the patience of the rest of society finally runs out.

t is NOT racism to say we are concerned about safety,

It is NOT racism to say we have no idea where all of these people are going to be housed. How we can afford to feed and care for them given our infrastructure is collapsing as it is under the strain.

It is NOT racism to consider the impact of millions being absorbed, and no plan in place for resettling properly with values based education.

It is NOT racism to demand that our government takes action, that there is a level of control and accountability.

You are lazy resorting to banding about insults like this without even taking the time to listen to the very real concerns and issues people have. It’s performative and based on a total lie. We have no housing at all in our county - none - can they come and live with you?

As above 👆🏻

I must say, this thread is sounding very “Rivers of Blood”…

Because no woman has ever committed a crime?

210,000 Ukrainians came to the uk in the year ending 16th July 2024 (Source: Migration Observatory). We were all so proud of how welcoming we were. That's a lot more people than small boats though, yet no one is protesting about the "rapid demographic change" or "the plummeting standards of living".

I just can't work out what the difference might be... 🙄

Problem is, you usually don't know someone is 'thinking' it's okay to rape a woman unless they've already done it.

I mean, these were almost Enoch Powell’s words exactly. Are we really back to being a society that supports Enoch Powell? How long will it be until one of you actually says “I mean, Enoch Powell had a point…”?

Very dark times ahead if we’re just casually accepting racist attitudes from the 20th century as acceptable again.

(Just to add: if you ever do find yourself even thinking “Enoch Powell had a point”, please don’t deny the fact that you’re far right swinging when people tell you that you are. Own up to being a racist, it makes it much easier for all of us on the receiving end. Please and thank you.)

@WasThatACorner

Because people who want to be angry about immigration could see one crime committed by an immigrant and take that as evidence for their argument. That's how hate and fear mongering works.

The published data would (I truly believe) show that the vast majority of immigrants commit no crime, that most national groups commit crime at a similar rate or lower than the UK population.

Wouldn't that help reduce hate and fear-mongering?

I think it would probably also show a few groups with hugely disproportionate crime issues (but still, the majority of those groups being blameless).

We could then discuss those specific problem groups rather than risk tarring all. That's good in your book presumably.

So you despise the Daily Mail yet still read it thus adding to the profits it makes. How strange!