You don't need to follow specific rules to be middle class

[Skyrainlight]

I've found a few mumsnetters seem to think you need to follow rules to be middle class, words not to use, places not to shop, behaviour that's not ok, etc. It's odd to me. For me middle class just 'Is', based on upbringing and current life. Surely the middle class behaviour (whatever that is) just comes naturally.

Based on my current life and upbringing I would class myself as middle class if I was required to define it, but I'm not conventional and don't try to follow any rules, and I don't see it as the badge of honour some on MN seem to see it as.

I know a lot of people don't believe in classes, for the of this purpose pol I'm just asking: Do you feel you need to follow specific rules to be middle class?

YABU - yes, class is defined by rules that need to be followed
YANBU - no you don't have to try to be middle class you just are

No, because the if he has the padre's attention, then the padre is at that split second changed back to being a rating. Though of course the rating will have to salute/brace up to the Admiral and speak only when spoken to and call them Sir/Maam. But the rating need never salute the padre and would probably go out of their way to avoid sentence structures that would need "Sir" if addressing any other officer

@TheJones
"Another thing I’ve found is how we dress- the richer you are , more confident with your status , then the more likely you are to rock up in year old sweaters and shorts on the school run with holes in!"

Hah, I must be rich, upper class then. I wear stuff till it falls apart.

(I'm really not, I'm a firmly working class shit-kicker).

I think that Mn is a place where, because of the anonymity of the internet, lots of people talk openly about things that aren’t usually discussed, and I think social class is one of them.

I also think it’s discussed quite so much on here because the largest single constituency on here is ‘aspirational lower-middle class’ (some prosperous, others not), and that’s probably the most class-conscious sector of UK society, and the most attuned to class shibboleths. Even when they get them wrong.

I’m not originally from the UK, and find its class system fascinating (not that my home country doesn’t have one, but it operates quite differently for various reasons).

Grasping nuances illuminates reading British fiction, for one thing. I was reading a novel yesterday where an entire scene set in a public school, a spat between pupils and a school librarian, only made full sense if you understand that while an UC person may get into a violent argument with a social equal, one doesn’t lose one’s temper with the staff. These well-brought-up UC children have absorbed this and are polite to the librarian, who falls into the same category as housekeepers, grounds staff etc.

Thank you. Gotcha. Fascinating! Would recruits be taught this explicitly during training?

that's a strange name, never heard of anyone with a name starting 'Watching the .." before!

It definitely does... for right or for wrong...

The book is called Kate Fox. It wasn't about foxes at all, so it was disappointing.

All the items in the last paragraph sound entirely working class?

@CyranoDeBergerQuack , your definition is of the nouveaux riches not the middle classes.

I live in Scotland for decades, not from Scotland (Ireland) but there is definitely a distinction between middle class and lower class accents.. the Upper and middle upper class (private school) accents are for sure almost RP, but that doesn't mean there is no distinction between working class and middle class accents aside from that...

Read the post fully and you will note that the middle classes were the nouveaux riches after the industrial revolution. 250 years or so of existence hasn't really changed that. After all, property prices, schools and holidays are the staple conversations of the MC and they competition and comparison is strong. Landed gentry don't give a toss about their neighbour's acreage or wealth.
But agree, there are many nr's who think flaunting ones wealth is classy

This is really interesting as I am your DD's generation in this scenario - I definitely think of myself as middle class, to me my parents are working class turned middle class, though both would bristle at being described as that too. My mum is from a mining family, my dad's mum was a single mum cleaner (and he grew up in poverty). However both went to university via grammar schools (when grammar schools were everywhere), became professionals (engineer and accountant) and have since lived a 'middle class' style life with travel, museums and galleries, music lessons etc. So I straddle a world of middle and working class, where most of my family is all (northern) working class, but I am (southern) middle class. My grandad left school at 13 to go down the mines, but I went to Oxford. Most of my friends received inheritances from grandparents - I did not as most of them died young and none owned homes. That has definitely reflected in the properties we all own today. My own daughter will probably be the first to benefit in that way, if my parents do not require care homes. The only thing I have noticed in terms of 'rules' is language - I remember consciously starting to use sofa rather than settee and sitting/living room rather than lounge, when I left home, as my parents still use the 'working class' versions. Their accents have softened enormously though, compared to the rest of the family.

@CyranoDeBergerQuack , I'm middle class and have no nouveau riche ancestors.

The MN definition of class is weird.

'floating' :)

@HamptonPlace ,did you read the book? I got bored of it.

You must have had nouveau riche ancestors at some point, however far back you go.

No.

i did not! and now will not (not that i was every going to so do...) :)

The idea of middle class parents edging on Xmas Day is quite bizarre...

It was so much easier to place people before RTB. 😂

But the way that you live is an indication of class. There are rules to being middle class - or perhaps more accurately, attitudes and behaviours . If you’re brought up with these then they probably feel “natural” hence your “I don’t follow the rules, I just am”

Although in my view, a lot of people who think they’re middle class are just not, but are aspirational and pretentious.

But some of the words and phrases you just wouldn’t use as you wouldn’t have heard them in your house growing up so you will use the words you want , and they will be different than other people’s. . I don’t mean from that thread, that was a bit bonkers in terms of what the poster was being told by her “posh” friend.

she would be the one who would be perceived as middle class as they have expensive flashy cars type thing.

That is so far from being middle class, I can’t begin to unpick your reasoning @TheJones

But I suspect that I’m upper m-c - old money, trust funds, frugality and culture …

Hmm all the middle/upper class people I’ve worked with or come into contact with have never had a strong regional accent. Scottish colleagues and clients have had a very soft accent or no accent at all. Same with the children at my daughter’s school which is a grammar, very few broad Lancastrian accents. Which is in contrast with my private junior school where a lot of the children had parents like mine who were blue collar workers who had set up their own businesses.

@HamptonPlace , there's nothing wrong with it, and it's not 'boring', it just seems to be things you'd know anyway, and I'd rather be reading something that stretches me.

If I did want to complain about it, she seems a bit self-congratulatory, dismisses Jeremy Paxman (a book written by The English ), and the print in my copy is small making the footnotes difficult to spot. (I'm not knocking her, she's written a successful book, but it doesn't have that 'guilty pleasure' vibe about it)

I'll probably read more of it sometime.