You don't need to follow specific rules to be middle class

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I've found a few mumsnetters seem to think you need to follow rules to be middle class, words not to use, places not to shop, behaviour that's not ok, etc. It's odd to me. For me middle class just 'Is', based on upbringing and current life. Surely the middle class behaviour (whatever that is) just comes naturally.

Based on my current life and upbringing I would class myself as middle class if I was required to define it, but I'm not conventional and don't try to follow any rules, and I don't see it as the badge of honour some on MN seem to see it as.

I know a lot of people don't believe in classes, for the of this purpose pol I'm just asking: Do you feel you need to follow specific rules to be middle class?

YABU - yes, class is defined by rules that need to be followed
YANBU - no you don't have to try to be middle class you just are

Absolutely as someone living on benefits this makes me middle class by definition 🤣🤣

Yes you are right.

It’s like when people wear head to toe of overly branded clothing, whilst actual rich people tend to just wear what they want and not feel the need to show that they’re wearing branded clothing.

Not quite-

Working class jobs are seen as blue collar

Middle class jobs are normally white collar

You can be middle class and work and need the money from working but more likely to be in professional jobs , degree etc

Upper class- (this is where we sit) we work, if not we would have to sell off assets / properties.

I think most people need to work and the need to work doesn’t reflect their class. Maybe their jobs do but again that’s tricky and overlaps . My brother is a game keeper - very outdoor job and low pay but is upper class.

Okayden 🤣🤣🤣 bloody hell, after a crap day this has cracked me up!

I’ve never known anyone who is genuinely upper class, refer to themselves as upper class 🤔

Are you a woman of a certain age and does Greg Wallace blame you for everything he has ever done all by himself?

If yes, you are middle class.

🙌

So if you had to choose a class you’d identify as middle class.
What is it that makes you middle class rather than upper or lower class?

@FarmerLlama OMG I love it 💕

Enjoy being middle class!!!

In USA according to my well travelled US colleague of you aren't "trailer trash" you are middle class - seems insane. Especially when you can be one illness or accident from homelessness, bankruptcy and utter poverty

How many upper class people do you know? I think there aren’t that many - lots of new money but old school English middle class I would say few and far between. I would say in my son’s class of 12- 2 of us are from that background. In my youngests- none and all are new money. Probably new money are more cash rich whereas I’d say we were asset rich.

Also agree we don’t wander round talking about social class but in a conversation like this it’s entirely relevant. Also we don’t have to pretend to be blind, or ignorant to what we are- being working, middle or upper class is not something to be ashamed about.

You can't follow any rules, really. You just are. It's your upbringing, its little things, i find that define it. Your habits, how you speak, your interests, how you hold your fork, how you dress. I don't think you can ever learn to be middle class though... unless you are and have been brought up that way.

Those who were brought up working class and then will try to be middle class when older... even with a well-paid job... it's very noticeable that they started working class.

This subject os fascinating to me...as a foreigner, I have never understood the class thing in the UK. Is is true that foreigners don't belong to any class at all (as you cannot put as in a category by our accent?), I've always heard this. Or do you still categorise forwigners dwpending on their clothes, manners, what we like...?

I wouldn't say rules but there are ways people signify their class from their upbringing. I grew up working class but married a very middle/upper middle class man and went to a very middle class uni, it's not so much about jobs and income, most middle class people have other safety nets, it's a bit of an anxiety that's difficult to identify if that's your world and a lot of virtue signalling. It works both ways, I have a nice house, good job, not a strong accent, educated etc but middle class people can just tell.

See I don't think you can take the class out of a person just because they become well off financially, as like PP says its more than that, however I think there are alot of people who move away from a particular class as they grow up and their persona aswell as lifestyle does not reflect their background.Or others who maintain their own despite having characteristics of another.
My husband was from a working class background, i was middle class but my dad from an upper class background so certain elements of my upbringing reflected that.
My husband now has some elements of working class still and some of middle class like me....but think he would still see himself as working class.

as you cannot put as in a category by our accent?

I don't think accent has much to do with class

This is a fun book

You can tell a lot about what class someone is by their accent

Middle classes are relatively new, tbey arrived with the industrial revolution when a few owned the means of prduction.
So desperate were they to disassociate themselves from the lower classes, they introduced fish knives, lounges, toilets, Tarquins and desserts.
So yes, they have a set of rules that both the landed gentry and the lower classes rip the piss out of mercilessly.
You can spot them a mile off, particularly the new money, because they talk endlessly about it, along with their all inclusive holidays, schools, and wearing of tacky designers such as Dior and D & G.

The people that care the most are desperate to be considered upper middle class and wanting to bat signal aggressively to that they’re just a little bit superior to you…

I've been thinking about this recently after one of dd's sixth form friends referred to us as middle class. I had quite a visceral reaction. I come from a family of northern miners. Terrible conditions, too many babies, nobody ever left the village. Nobody worked anywhere but the mines, or the potteries if your lungs were bad. Strikes, proud Labour activists, make do and mend and so on. My Mum worked in a shop and my Dad was a milkman and then a shop worker. I am working class through and through.

Except, I went to university and have a handful of degrees. I'm educated and have a neutral accent and soft voice. DH is similarly educated and is a police officer. I'm an English teacher. We own our home. We own two cars. We spend a lot of time in galleries and museums and have lifetime membership to various places like NT and EH. DD is hoping to go to Cambridge. I only mention these things because my siblings and cousins find them completely alien.

I asked a colleague today and she said "of course you're middle class" and I bristled.

I don't know why it matters tbh. But I was surprised to realise, it does. I am working class.

Go on then how so?

I was told by a sociology lecturer that it was whether or not you or your parents went to university and had professional jobs. Which sort of makes sense. If you grew up in a middle class household, even if you're now in a working class job role you will still have the attitudes and values of the middle classes, especially if you went to university. I think people can move upwards in terms of class quite quickly, but it is a much slower process to move downwards.

Upper class to me means there was old money, although it may have disappeared over the generations. And there are behaviours that go along with being upper class like those described on the thread. My family was well off but not old money.
Working class I guess I would define as having blue collar jobs. Or having grown up in a working class household. My family wasn't working class.
Hence choosing middle class.

But there is mobility and variation and people with working class jobs aren't necessarily working class, and the same with white collar job, not necessarily middle class, etc. It's not black and white.

Another thing that I think categorises people in to different class systems in England is education and traditions. We were playing ‘Are you there Mariati’ - we had the young farmers over and our school friends. My friends who are working class (there words and quite rightly proud / content ) were giggling that it was the poshest game they’d seen at a dinner party. My best friend says when we quote Descartes in conversation and she would quote Chris Browns lyrics it shows in that. Normal day to day things - oh and she finds it hilarious we learnt Latin at school and had ink wells- I only left school 15 years ago and to her it’s very Victorian she says!

Most aspirational people I know are desperate to come across as upper middle class. It’s not enough to just be a common-all-garden middle class prole these days like me.

Obvious signifiers mean very little. With hard work and a fair degree of luck, anyone from any background can have a big house or be a lawyer; anyone can dress in stylish clothing and drive a 4x4. Anyone can go sailing or skiing and send their kids to private school. And if you are seen to be trying too hard to adhere to this paint-by-numbers approach, the clear insecurity and lack of insouciant individuality makes you a dead giveaway.