You don't need to follow specific rules to be middle class

[Skyrainlight]

I've found a few mumsnetters seem to think you need to follow rules to be middle class, words not to use, places not to shop, behaviour that's not ok, etc. It's odd to me. For me middle class just 'Is', based on upbringing and current life. Surely the middle class behaviour (whatever that is) just comes naturally.

Based on my current life and upbringing I would class myself as middle class if I was required to define it, but I'm not conventional and don't try to follow any rules, and I don't see it as the badge of honour some on MN seem to see it as.

I know a lot of people don't believe in classes, for the of this purpose pol I'm just asking: Do you feel you need to follow specific rules to be middle class?

YABU - yes, class is defined by rules that need to be followed
YANBU - no you don't have to try to be middle class you just are

I wouldn't know. I would probably have to look up what the actual definition of middle class is. Growing up I had a very good lifestyle, my parents wanted me to go to private school although I refused. The country I was in wasn't really defined in terms of classes. Here I have a decent lifestyle, live in a nice area but not in a huge house, my husband works in the corporate world which is where I used to work. But I wouldn't use middle class as my descriptor unless I was pushed to choose a category.

Mine's the house with an old mattress and a broken fan out the front.
Darci-Jayde and Teejay love it here.

People who are just conform to the norms of the group.

Those who try oh so very hard to be seen as middle class are the ones I find bizarre.

This is tragic. In the grand scheme of life who cares about matters such as class. 🙄

Why the obsession with class with everything from TV, where people shop, what newspapers they read etc.

I would say people who obsess over class actually don't have any class in the first place

Okayden 🤭 just chortled out loud

People are obsessed on here with class - earlier this week it was commented that it is common or a ‘lower class thing’ to allow children to open presents as soon as they wake up. It was described as a ‘middle class delayed gratification’ thing to wait until later in the morning/after lunch.

Who cares? People need to stop the comparisons and start living the life you were given.
Strive to be better by all means but this whole judging people by class is archaic.
Be proud of yourself no matter what your situation.
People will judge you. If they are judging you then why are you bothered by them? They are not worth knowing.

Find your kin. Stay with who/what makes you actually happy.

As a working class woman who ended up working in a field (law / finance) where most senior people are middle class, trust me, it matters. I had to be better at my job than all the mc men, because my face (and accent) didn’t ‘fit’. Learning to speak a certain way, dress a certain way, it’s camouflage.

I’m not saying that’s a good thing btw, just that it is what happens.

No of course you don't have to follow rules, but people are so desperate not to be lumped with all the riff raff, despite coming from humble beginnings. They decide that because their kids like olives and hummus and they call their lounge the sitting room, and they say napkin instead of serviette now, that they have ticked enough boxes to be called middle class.

I saw that thread, it was one of the things that made me think of the 'rules'. Seems very rigid to have 'class rules' deciding when to open presents.

Worrying about whether you seem “middle class” is the fastest way to make people think you are not.

Going out of your way to use correct words and wear certain things just draws attention to the fact you are anxious about it.

In my experience people don’t really give a shit what class you come from as long as you’re comfortable with who you are.

When it comes to class, I think I’ve got a foot in both camps. But MC people are far kinder to “in-betweeners” than WC people, many of the latter have real chips on their shoulders

My elderly, very posh neighbour, who loves opera, dogs and has a second cousin who lives in a (small) castle, once asked me to bring her back a couple of Gregg's steak bakes when I was walking into town and offered to fetch anything she wanted. I was gobsmacked.

On reflection, it makes sense that she must be a fraud. She lives in the same road as us, after all.

That reminds me of a book I read by an anthropologist called Watching the English I think. It was really good, she is British but decided to do her study on her own people, I remember the words lounge, sitting room, napkin & serviette coming up in the book. At one point she decided to jump a queue to test people's reactions for the book, and she had to go have a few drinks first to build up courage because it went so against the grain.

This is exactly it . It’s just who you are. I wonder though if those who are insecure about their social status try and follow rules to be perceived as a different class. A couple of mums in my son’s class are very like this- would be working class- but are trying to move socially upwards and can be quite competitive with each other about it. I’m not sure why as it can look abit chavvy and they end up dressing their children in head to toe Barbour . One day I came in to school in my riding gear and had my le Chameau wellies on- complete with horse shit on from mucking out and some Holland and cooper jeggings - next week one mum had dressed herself and her kids in the same. (She’s a good friend and I love her dearly and she said she’d clocked the brands). I thought golly I wouldn’t be spending that much when the only reason I buy it is because I need it and it’s practical not because of the brands per se . I also think it’s cool to own who you are- where you’re from type thing.

@Skyrainlight It's really hard to understand the class system when you're not born in the UK. For me it would be education, manners, and general knowledge about different things that makes someone middle class.

I don't think any of those are middle class markers. For me it's about having bookshelves, saying pudding and napkin not serviette and dessert, no TV in kids bedrooms, being slightly self conscious at all times, kids wear scruffy clothes

MN has made me never want to be middle class, it sound awful.

Life is too short to have to live by a set of rules, just so people don’t see you as working class.

I always remember one poor OP bringing a bottle of lemonade to a dinner and posters tore her a new one because apparently no one should drink a soft drink with a meal, it should only be water or wine.

I couldn’t think of anything worse than not being allowed to drink a glass of bloody lemonade with a meal or not being able to do such minor things.

I tend to do what I want.

Middle class people don’t live by a set of rules.
Aspirational mc people do. Huge difference.

You are right. I've lived here for a while now though and I think I would be able to correctly guess which class a lot of people fall into, when I first arrived I wouldn't have had a clue. The thing that still intrigues me are the rules because my interpretation of it is that if you feel comfortable with where you sit in the class system (if you buy into it) you don't need to follow rules. And I was wondering if I was misinterpreting it because it seems to be discussed so much on MN whereas offline I'm haven't heard it mentioned much, if at all.

To me though….. those who are saying you can’t drink lemonade with a meal are being pretentious and trying to hard. I’m old school
upper class, we do what we want! I don’t personally drink soft drinks with a meal
but if we had a dinner party, I wouldn’t blink twice if someone did. Waitrose sell a wonderful non alcoholic schloer type thing and our friend drank that. Another thing I’ve found is how we dress- the richer you are , more confident with your status , then the more likely you are to rock up in year old sweaters and shorts on the school run with holes in!

This cracks me up.

If you need to work then you are working class.

Sure you may earn £££££ mega house, DC private school and staff but you are still "aspiring working class".

Don't need to work - middle class.

One step down from Royalty - upper class.

Yes you are absolutely right!