how to handle my controlling SIL

[lizzifitzburg]

Sorry for this long-winded message but I've had enough!

My SIL has serious control issues. She tries to micromanage every part of her life, and as much as she can get away with, those around her. Her husband is a puppet, running around all day trying to please her. It’s honestly hard to watch and always makes me feel uncomfortable around them. He just quietly gets on with things despite noticeably not always being happy or because it interferes with something he is doing or wanting to do. She speaks for him, (even when present!), plans his itinerary and who he will hang out with (more on that later..), and even tells him when to go to bed! This dynamic seems to work for them strangely, but it’s odd and I’m even concerned that one day he will not take it any longer and something bad will happen.

What affects me, though, is how manipulative she is when it comes to influencing family situations, including her brother's time (my partner) and mine, directly or indirectly. She never communicates with me to make plans or check that there are no clashes or other issues. Rather, she goes through my partner for everything. She does this because she knows she’ll get what she wants from him, agreeing to everything and getting him on board. If she had discussed it with me, she would be 'risking' that I might ask questions or, god forbid, suggest a different plan which contradicts her fixed vision of perfection and makes her feel not in control. It’s really her way or the highway.

In 18 years, I can count on one hand how many times we’ve actually spoken, let alone made plans jointly despite finding ourselves a few weeks a year getting together as a family. My partner, unfortunately, doesn’t challenge her. He admits he finds her controlling behaviour annoying sometimes but has this strange fear of upsetting her (same goes for her mum, and the younger siblings). He just goes along with whatever she wants and then vents to me later. He hates confrontation.

Her methods are subtle—always calm and softly spoken—but after years of observing her, her controlled manner feels very passive-aggressive. She has a particular way of saying things, describing what is going to happen while providing one-sided and the 'only option' reasoning which makes you feel you have nothing to add to the conversation. I never found her genuine and I am very good at sniffing this kind of people.

This Christmas, she asked to stay with us for a few days (well not really asked, but rather declared politely). As usual, all plans were discussed and finalised without my knowledge, and I just got the bottom line and the exact day-by-day itinerary. Every night was mapped out, including one evening when she suggested that her husband take my partner for dinner while she went out for dinner with her friends. The excuse was so he can treat my partner for his birthday he’d missed, but for context, it was my birthday to around the same time, yet I was not part of either plan.

I found it hurtful to be excluded like this as it had very little meaning the two of them go for dinner alone, in particular, because it’s all around Christmas time and they are staying with us, yet she didn’t even find a single night to ensure the 4 of us hang out together. But what’s more disturbing comes next. My partner, sensing my disappointment and that something was a bit 'off', asked her if she could invite me to join her and her friends, citing that I was having a tough time at the moment (which is true). Her response was a straight-up “no, it won’t work” message I accidentally saw popped up on his phone.

At that point, I’d had enough. I sent her a polite message saying that unfortunately, they couldn’t stay with us this time because I was dealing with difficult personal issues and wanted to be alone (and really at that point could not bear her presence in my house). Guess what happens next. Within seconds, she texted my partner asking him what was going on and why I said what I said. Coincidently, I saw this message also (his phone was just next to me) I then replied to her with "Oh, I see you just message X. If you have any questions feel free to call me".

I knew exactly what she was doing—bypassing me so that he’d come and guilt-trip me into changing my mind which is exactly what happened. He was angry I messaged her without asking him. I replied that I was entitled to communicate with whoever I wanted without his consent, including his sister.

Despite years of asking my partner to handle her better, I’ve given up and feel I need to take matters into my own hands. This passive-aggressive intrusion must stop! So, two questions really –

• AIBU to tell her she can’t stay with us this time?

• Would it be a good idea to be brutally honest with her and tell her how I feel about her style of comms? Apparently, she wants to talk to me now to discuss the issue but I can't be bothered because I know she will come up with some bullshit talk which will make me feel guilty and agree for them to stay after all.

Thank you for getting all the way here! I appreciate your thoughts.

Use her own words back at her, 'that doesn't work for us'.

And yes I would have it out with her, this is the perfect opportunity to point out her rudeness and disrespect of you. let her have it with both barrels.

it's strange your dp is fine getting angry with you but not his sister. Pathetic man. very unattractive

@Allmychickenscometoroost I agree. I also feel now it's an opportunity but that means an explosive family incident over Christmas which will upset everyone and I will be blamed for it!

I think it's quite normal for your SIL to contact her brother to arrange meeting up, same thing happens with my DH. My family would message me too about any arrangements, that's pretty normal. Your DH is the problem here - he should say to her I'll check with lizzifitzburg that we're free that weekend and get back to you. Then he should discuss the arrangements with you.

I can't see why you couldn't just say to her - enjoy dinner with friends - and then go out with DP and DBIL . Surely she cannot mandate that.

I should also add that I need to manage my DD feeling and be sensitive to the fact she adores her aunt. SIL for years nurtured this relationship and while a lot of good things happened for my DD she now feel torn if I dismiss something the SIL say. She also now can get a growth me if I won't let her go there but monopod it if I feel she needs to stay at home and study. Otherwise I always tried to be reasonable and if there is no real issue of her spending time there I didn't try to be difficult for the sake of it.

Do I need to gently broach this with DD? She's nearly 16. SIL now call her too and message her so she is the next person to be hypnotised.

He just goes along with whatever she wants and then vents to me later

OK, so now you have to stop tolerating the venting and point out to him that he does this to clear his conscience before he does as she tells him anyway, so he can just bypass that stage, not drag you into it, and process his own feelings, ta very much.

I know the type of person you mean. They are extraordinarily wily at getting their way. You can best her but you'll have to be really up for it. So often they get their way because everyone else runs out of steam when opposing them.

@BasiliskStare I thought about that! And that is actually my plan but how do I get myself invite? It feels like I'm not so I have to be asking this, which is not great to 'beg'.

I even thought to just turn up to the place uninvited saying I got board at home or some other bullshit for fun!

@PullTheBricksDown completely. For years I thought fuck that I don't have time for this and I don't really care what happens anyway, and go on with my day, compartmentalising her passive-aggressiveness. But more recently I am starting to care more and resent my DP for not seeing what I'm seeing.

I think this isn't really a SIL problem, it's a DH problem. I communicate with my own siblings far more than with my BIL, and DH with his brother far more than my siblings. But I don't make firm plans / arrangements / organise things with my siblings without talking to DH first, unless I already know he's happy with them, or he's going to be away for work, or whatever.

This. He's the problem not your SIL.

So they come and stay with you to facilitate their socialising needs in your area.. and only your dh is taken out for a meal.. when I stay with anyone I take both hosts out for a meal to say thanks, or bring them a thank you gift, or get a takeaway in/cook…

I can’t imagine leaving one at home on purpose and just fecking off with the other partner for a meal - it’s like you are just the ‘Help’. There to facilitate their stay but be seen and not heard.

sod that. Hubby would be getting dragged to counselling by his ears so we can work through where his priorities and boundaries are.

you are his person now… you come first. Then his family. Grrr

This. You have a partner problem. He is still scared of his sister and that takes precedence over you.

This is an issue between you and your DH.

It sounds like your DH has two “strong” women in his life at odds with each other. She’s not “bypassing” you because it’s perfectly normal and reasonable for a person to communicate with their sibling directly, and doubly so when the sibling’s spouse quite obviously detests them. It’s actually more strange when a grown man says yes to something and then his wife overrides him to the third party. Your DH needs to be the one to check your check your joint calendar and discuss plans with you before committing because he’s an equal adult in your relationship, right? He can have his own relationship with his sister but when plans impact you as well he needs to prioritize being your partner. That’s where I’d be putting my foot down first I were you.

It was obvious about 2 paragraphs in to your post why your SIL wouldn’t want to go to dinner or hang out with you… you can’t stand her and of course she knows it. And you don’t actually want to spend time with her either, do you? So why try to insist otherwise then unless you just don’t want her to get her way? In your example he needed to tell his sister that he’d love to see her but she would need to get a hotel and then they could go out while you do something that you actually enjoy.

You won’t change your partner but both of you can just always say p, as she did, a straight-up “no, it won’t work” to her.

Hold the line. It is not possible for them to stAy this year.

Surely you just say to your DH that you would like to go for dinner with them and then call the restaurant to add you?

I agree. If I am making arrangements to see my brothers I don’t go through their DW’’s of DP’s. I think the OP is being a hypocrite as I would see that as very controlling of I had to run everything by them instead of my actual family.

Unfair for her to engineer a meal for your DH and BIL so she can go out with her friends. Without a thought for what you will do. So rude. So no, definitely not unreasonable. Not a thought for how you are either, if you’re ok. Just annoyed that you have ruined her plans. Maybe speak to her, tell her you’re offended she didn’t care what you did, as long as she got her night out, and even now she hasn’t asked how you are. You’re clearly just a handy place to stay.

Up until the point, where she organised separate things out but excluded you, her behaviour could have perhaps been excused as a bit overbearing and your dp being conflict averse. However it’s clear she is targeting you. How rude.

My sil is like this. Totally overbearing. Her way or the highway. They’re divorcing right now.

As for your dd, mine is a year older than yours. Has she not seen any difficult behaviours? If she knows the plans have changed, I’d tell her about this situation that’s for sure. But I’d talk about how it made you feel rather than being critical of her aunt. Your dd knows this is real mean girl stuff. I’d use that as a learning experience of how to treat your friends and family. I wouldn’t tell her too much in one go about how you feel about your sil. Just drip whenever you see manipulative behaviours that people, who seem too nice often are / have a hidden agenda. Talk about tv shows, situations at school with other girls, friends, whatever it is so that she can arm herself a bit more and join the dots.

I agree too.

You want communication between your DH and his family to go through you and you want the right of veto on any plans they make.
You cancel pre-arranged visits when small things aren't to your liking.
You read messages between your DH and his family and insert yourself into their conversations.

I'm not convinced it's your SIL who is the controlling one.

Up until the point, where she organised separate things out but excluded you, her behaviour could have perhaps been excused as a bit overbearing and your dp being conflict averse.

I think this is actually the most reasonable part of all of this. OP and her SIL clearly do not like each other or get along, so of course SIL is trying to limit their direct time together (and avoids calling or texting OP). In what world would any sane person want to go have dinner for four with OP and her SIL after reading this thread, much less living in the middle of this conflict for years? OP doesn’t like SIL making plans for her, but she’s also upset that SIL didn’t make plans for her during the visit (including not leaving SIL’s DH for OP to entertain at the house while SIL sees friends). If OP didn’t want a night to herself then she and her DH could have decided she’d accompany him and BIL to dinner (and SIL would indeed be unbelievably controlling if she tried to put a stop to that since she won’t be there) or even say that actually BIL would need to find his own entertainment for the night because OP and DH aware busy. But instead OP’s DH tries to get OP included on a friends night out with the SIL she can’t stand, which is absolutely nonsensical.

Being angry that a person you dislike is not trying to get you to spend time with them and is deliberately not keeping you as the go-between in their relationship with someone you both love is not reasonable.

Ring her up, tell her she's not staying because she's extremely rude and presumptious and you have other plans "Sorry, it doesn't work for me!" And if she wants to make arrangements involving you and your home again she is to speak to you directly about it, and to be clear she must never, ever presume or invite herself anywhere again.

@lizzifitzburg Way to go OP. You handled that just fine. Make sure SIL knows who's the boss in YOUR house (: not her).

Oh, I have one of those. I find her tedious beyond anything. Luckily distance means once a year we’re in the position where everyone marches to her tune as she tells the entire family, parents, siblings, children, my children, me THE PLAN.
THE PLAN which she has had DP and my in laws sign off on without much consultation often includes - I shit you not - wake up times for us all, what we will eat when, bedtimes ( because sometimes wake up is early so she’ll want to make sure we all go to bed at 9pm tune thing) activities.
I generally go along with most of it and just don’t join in the stuff I don’t want to. My poor BIL caters to her every whim like a dog.
SIL once fell out with her parents over something minor and didn’t let them see the grandchildren for a year so everyone tip toes around her.

Stick to your guns OP - you aren’t up to having her control your Xmas - then Sri k to your guns.My kids also love SIL as she’s also organising ‘fun’ things to do. Irritating but at least they have a good relationship with her.

100% this. There are women on mumsnet who are frustrated that their DH's family treat them like his PA and Keeper of the Diary. It seems much more reasonable that his family make arrangements through him.

Likewise - you are supposed to be in a partnership. Don't text your DP's family to uninvite them without even a heads up to him first.