To feel sad that noone seems to care

[Feelingsad1987]

Just feeling really sad. This is pointless and just a rant, really.

Just had a difficult situation tonight. My partner is living in supportive accommodation. The staff are meant to make sure he takes his medication but they've not been doing so. Consequently he is now in psychosis.

Got an appointment for him on Wednesday with the psychiatrist. However, this afternoon he ended up being verbally aggressive to another resident. The police were called who just said 'there's nothing we can do'.

My partner then ended up at mine very confused and agitated. Said he was never going back to his accommodation as so paranoid and deluded about what is happening there. Then left mine refusing to say where he was going. I was very concerned about his welfare and the danger to other people so I phoned the police explained the situation and explained he needed to be found and taken to the Psych hospital. They tell me they can't do anything and I need to phone the ambulance. So I phone the ambulance who explain I need to phone the police as they can't drive around searching for him, but once the police find him they will attend. They tell me the police policy to quote to the police to convince them to help. So this time they take all the details.

A few hours later they phoned me back to say the 'inspector' wouldn't do anything as I had to do "all my checks' I asked what that meant. I had to speak to all his family and friends. I said that I had of course spoken to his mum and sister, they'd not seen him, but would call the police if he turned up there. He has no friends. I was then told his mum and sister have to do 'their checks'. I asked what they meant. I was told they needed to speak to all his family and friends. I explained again that he has no friends and his only family is his mum and sister. He is not with them. While this was happening he turned up at mine again and was very agitated and ran off when he realised I was talking to someone about him. 'We'll close things now that he's back home...' I explained this wasn't his home and that he'd ran off and he was still psychotic and dangerous. 'We can't do anything, we don't know where he is...' I told them the road he would be on after leaving mine. They then told me that I should be going out looking for him. I told them I have children so wasn't able to do that. They then told me I shouldn't have let him leave. Were really nasty about it. Said if he came back to keep him there.

A couple more hours then they phone me back to tell me they aren't going to do anything as they have spoken to the 'nurse' at his supported accommodation and they have said they have no concerns, that he often goes out and will be back by 11. I have to explain to the police there are no nurses it is a carer with no expertise in mental health. And one who clearly had no handover as they certainly had concerns when he was being aggressive to another resident. I also have to explain again he has said he will not go back there. The police tell me well 'they've let him out' so he must be ok. I have to explain to them it is supported accommodation not prison and he is free to come and go, there is no mechanism for them to not 'let him out'. 'Well, we can't do anything. If he comes back you need to keep him here and phone an ambulance. I explain I'm frightened of letting him in he is highly likely to hurt me. 'Oh well, anyone might hurt you, you don't know he's going to.'

He turns up again. I let him in and manage to calm him and explain I need to phone an ambulance. He gets very agitated. I phone the ambulance, they hear my screams and send the police. Police arrive and I explain how unwell he is. I ask them to take him to the Psych hospital. They tell me they can only do that if my partner confirms himself that he is a danger to himself and others. They say they'll drop him at A&E. I ask what to do when he comes back from there...oh well phone us...

Not one police officer seemed to care at all. I understand sometimes their hands are tied but they just didn't seem to care atall. And the way they would just confidently state complete rubbish and when you pointed it out it didn't seem to have any impact. It was their way or the highway. No matter how much ignorance it was based on or how much danger people would be put in. It didn't matter to them.

Yeah, they do, unfortunately. I’ve seen police and other professionals take the word of bank staff who have only set foot in the place once as gospel. No one will overhaul these awful places. It’s the same in all “care” accommodation, mental health, elderly, children’s homes. It’s despicable and all any staff care about is covering their own backs.

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. I would love for one of the people I have spoken to over the last few days to experience what it is like to deal with someone in psychosis who is aggressive and to have to keep calming them after every flare up. To actually understand the mental health system and not just spurt bollocks. To have even the tiniest bit of compassion for family and friends in these situations. But they all just seem so arrogant and think they know it all already, I doubt it would have any kind of impact.

instead they will take the word of a minimum wage carer with no training in mental health, who doesn't know my partner and has just come on shift?
is this the same person you expect to ensure he takes his meds? you're very scathing of overstretched services, yet expect everything from them.

I sympathise with this, I am sorry this is happening to you and your partner.

I've been the staff in that situation and it's very hard to ask somebody to take meds if they're saying they don't want to. Staff in these settings cannot enforce it. We can remind, suggest, take meds to someone's room instead of asking them to come to the meds room even, but if they say no we have to respect that. I have worked with women in severe need of expert support and spent hours on the phone to the police or crisis teams literally begging for some assistance. Support staff are left to pick up the pieces when there is no one else. We care, deeply, including the temps.

No, she’s right. I work in this area and I’ve made more complaints to the CQC than I care to remember.

The majority of other staff I worked with couldn’t give a shit. The mistakes that are made with medication are horrendous. Training is a joke. It’s mainly people that don’t want to do the job and don’t care.

Shes right to expect more. We all should.

I’m sorry op. The world is overcrowded, especially the U.K., and everything moves at such a fast pace as well. Because of that, people just have no time for one another. Twenty years ago, I visited the west coast of Ireland and was really struck by how kind and gentle and friendly people seemed. In reality, of course, I was comparing them to Londoners. When you have too many people jammed on top of one another, they get on one another’s nerves, and by the end of the week they’re all sick of each other. If the world was quieter, slower and emptier, we’d care more, and we’d have more time for our neighbours.

Yes, exactly, there needs to be a police section combined with medical staff that works with mental health issuese. And when I was asking about this yesterday the police just talked to me like I was stupid and told me I should phone them! 🤦‍♀️

Noone is expecting them to chase around all evening. I expected them to pick up someone who was a danger to others and themselves. They wasted far more time with all the back and forth we've had over the last couple of days. They will have spent a whole weekend chasing around unecessarily.

We do have a 136 suite at the Psych hospital. And as you say dropping the person at A&E achieves nothing. The amount of time the police spent arguing with me that taking him to A&E 'would give him the help he needs' was just madness. They seem to live in some fantasy land, I suppose they were just gaslighting me to shut me down but it was crazy.

And yes, it seems 'right service, right time' or whatever is used as a way for noone to take responsibility. I totally got why the ambulance service said it as they can't get to someone quick enough for them to remain in the same place and they can't deal with a dangerous person. But the police seem to want to use it as a way to absolve them of responsibility when the public are in danger. When I quoted it to them they did then accept it was their remit (well, they said they did, but in reality they didn't) but then today they have phoned me to argue with me that I shouldn't have called them as it should have been ambulance, all the while telling me if it kicks off today to phone them!! Honestly, where do they find these people? I've never had anything to do with the police in the past and I hope I never have anything to do with them again.

It really does make you understand how these things happen. The police obviously don't do risk assessments so to them the world is just full of random things happening. They don't look at any background information or are aware of anything else that has happened. No wonder they can't keep people safe. The whole system needs updating.

Thank you so much.

I know mental illness is not really understood by those with no experience so let the 'why are you with him?' comments go over my head. But thank you for saying that.

Yes, I know the S136 is when they are in public. He was outside my house on the Friday and then at the cafe yesterday so 2 opportunities missed.

Yes, that's the trouble with the crisis team, they can only assess someone over the phone so the person has to be willing or they ask you to take the person to an assessment unit which again you can't do if they don't consent.

I have heard of those kind of dedicated MH units and I asked the police about it but no we don't have it here, unfortunately.

In terms of his medication, staff have forgotten to offer it to him, not known if he has taken it or not and not followed the agreed procedure which is for him to take it in front of them and for him to stay with them for a bit of time afterwards.

Thank you, that's kind to say. It's so odd but the 101 control room people seemed to be universally rude, nasty and unprofessional. The 999 people were generally much nicer, bar one man who just absolutely screamed at me because I couldn't talk in front of my partner.

Thank you so much. At least tomorrow I can talk to his social worker and care coordinator and hopefully sort things out. I'm doubtful he will come to the appointment with the Psych. But hopefully will come to see his social worker. We already have an appointment due to safeguarding issues at his accommodation.

I'm glad your friend got help. Really makes you realise how broken our system is.

Yes, hopefully the team who knows him will be proactive. I would summarise these weekend’s events in an email to the MH team, copying in the manager if you have the addresses. And the supported accommodation manager. Documents the issues with medication processes etc.

Keep the tone neutral and factual, without apportioning blame. Acknowledge they are busy etc. But the facts speak for themselves really.

I think it’s vital to have a record of this stuff on a patient’s notes. In fact I would ask them to upload a copy of your email fhere for info.

Brilliant advice from @DoveMeaning OP.

All services are stretched beyond recognition. Our experience of the police in times gone by was often they were better and more undrrstanding than some of the MH professionals tbh, until resources were stretched beyind all recognition. Hopefully there are still some good eggs around as it largely depends who you manage to get on the day. The police absolutely do have a role because no-one else can do a S136. It's disgraceful they are often trying to pass the buck onto ambulance staff who cannot!

My goodness @Feelingsad1987 That sounds absolutely terrifying.

The police sound utterly useless.

A complete joke.

An old lady was walking her little dog around a playing field recently and a bullying security guard tried to physically manhandle her
He said he was going to call police as she was trespassing!

She replied “ Do that! They won’t care about a pensioner peacefully walking.”

Police didn’t show up .

People are wasting police time when you really needed help.

This Country has gone to shit with closure of many mental health units as well.

@oakleaffy
People are wasting police time when you really needed help.
very true, MN thinks you should call the police for everything, log it with police is a common piece of advice here.
It is also very poor that the majority of police time is dealing with MH issues and not policing, a serious overhaul of public funding is needed.

I didn't mean to make you feel bad either. To be honest it's probably best to know what truly might happen and then plan so it doesn't. I really feel for both of you and hope someone finally helps you!!

Sadly the police probably know from experience that they will detain him then have to stay with him for a wait of up to 12 hours in a sec 136 suite putting a crew out of action for the day / night when they are already under pressure only to be told at the end of that that he has capacity and can decide not to take his meds if he doesn’t want to and his regular mh team will be in touch tomorrow. They will then just end up taking him home and repeat. The police are not mental health professionals. The NHS is as stretched as the police are. Times are tough out there.

I completely agree. These places are run purely as a business to make money off vulnerable people, not as the resident's home. And if anyone tries to complain they will do what they can to shut it down. They are not interested in the safety or welfare of the residents.

And the police again are only concerned about box ticking and covering their backs. So if a random bank staff who has never met the person and has no idea what has happened say they have no concerns instead of using their brains and realising it means nothing, they just take it as gospel and use it to pretend they've done their job.

Expect 'everything' of them? You mean expect them to do the job they are paid for?

You think it is fine him not being given his medication? You think it is no problem care staff giving out false information to the police?

I’ve been sacked from two mental health units and one dementia care unit for complaining to the CQC. They don’t like it when staff do that. Not that much ever happens. The homes, adult social care and the CQC are all in it together (especially the residential units and social services, it’s actually a joke).

I'm glad and don't doubt you care but it is not the case of all staff. One safeguarding issue being investigated is a member of staff who verbally and physically abuses the residents.

Sadly the home has a new manager and all the good staff have left because they can't stand working there anymore.

This is not a case of him refusing meds (and if he did they only have to phone me to have a word with him.) This is due to staff not knowing what they are doing. Not offering meds, not knowing who needs meds and not following procedure in giving meds. I think it is ridiculous getting untrained people to handle meds but this is what these companies do and they make a lot of money off of it.

Yes, I agree. These companies should be held to account and made to provide the service they are paid to do so. It's a complete misnomer to call these places 'supportive' accommodation as they provide very scant support. They are just a way for private companies to make money from vulnerable people.

Thank you for the advice.

It appeared that many of the police staff had never heard of a S136. They insisted police could not do that only medical staff. It appears there is a lot of ignorance around mental health (and for example understanding what supported accommodation is and is not.) and the police's role. That's why having a mental health police team could work as hopefully they could train these particular officers to understand what a S136 is, what happens at supported accommodation and around how they can not put the caller on more danger - I.e don't insist they let the dangerous person into their house, don't insist they follow them, don't go mental at a caller if they can't speak as the unwell person is there, don't turn up drop the person off somewhere where they will just leave putting the caller in more danger as now the person is agitated and paranoid about why their family member called the police.

I've come to the conclusion that calling the police makes these situations more dangerous. I don't think I'd ever phone them again.

This is sad, bu the police are right, this is a mental health issue, which is medical and police are not experts in mental health.

In our situation if they actually did policing and used the police's power of S136 they wouldn't have then had to waste so much time on the chaos that ensued.

If supported accommodation was a service held accountable rather than private businesses with the only goal of making money maybe there would be less need of police having to deal with mental health. Alongside proper funding of the mental health services.