To feel sad that noone seems to care

[Feelingsad1987]

Just feeling really sad. This is pointless and just a rant, really.

Just had a difficult situation tonight. My partner is living in supportive accommodation. The staff are meant to make sure he takes his medication but they've not been doing so. Consequently he is now in psychosis.

Got an appointment for him on Wednesday with the psychiatrist. However, this afternoon he ended up being verbally aggressive to another resident. The police were called who just said 'there's nothing we can do'.

My partner then ended up at mine very confused and agitated. Said he was never going back to his accommodation as so paranoid and deluded about what is happening there. Then left mine refusing to say where he was going. I was very concerned about his welfare and the danger to other people so I phoned the police explained the situation and explained he needed to be found and taken to the Psych hospital. They tell me they can't do anything and I need to phone the ambulance. So I phone the ambulance who explain I need to phone the police as they can't drive around searching for him, but once the police find him they will attend. They tell me the police policy to quote to the police to convince them to help. So this time they take all the details.

A few hours later they phoned me back to say the 'inspector' wouldn't do anything as I had to do "all my checks' I asked what that meant. I had to speak to all his family and friends. I said that I had of course spoken to his mum and sister, they'd not seen him, but would call the police if he turned up there. He has no friends. I was then told his mum and sister have to do 'their checks'. I asked what they meant. I was told they needed to speak to all his family and friends. I explained again that he has no friends and his only family is his mum and sister. He is not with them. While this was happening he turned up at mine again and was very agitated and ran off when he realised I was talking to someone about him. 'We'll close things now that he's back home...' I explained this wasn't his home and that he'd ran off and he was still psychotic and dangerous. 'We can't do anything, we don't know where he is...' I told them the road he would be on after leaving mine. They then told me that I should be going out looking for him. I told them I have children so wasn't able to do that. They then told me I shouldn't have let him leave. Were really nasty about it. Said if he came back to keep him there.

A couple more hours then they phone me back to tell me they aren't going to do anything as they have spoken to the 'nurse' at his supported accommodation and they have said they have no concerns, that he often goes out and will be back by 11. I have to explain to the police there are no nurses it is a carer with no expertise in mental health. And one who clearly had no handover as they certainly had concerns when he was being aggressive to another resident. I also have to explain again he has said he will not go back there. The police tell me well 'they've let him out' so he must be ok. I have to explain to them it is supported accommodation not prison and he is free to come and go, there is no mechanism for them to not 'let him out'. 'Well, we can't do anything. If he comes back you need to keep him here and phone an ambulance. I explain I'm frightened of letting him in he is highly likely to hurt me. 'Oh well, anyone might hurt you, you don't know he's going to.'

He turns up again. I let him in and manage to calm him and explain I need to phone an ambulance. He gets very agitated. I phone the ambulance, they hear my screams and send the police. Police arrive and I explain how unwell he is. I ask them to take him to the Psych hospital. They tell me they can only do that if my partner confirms himself that he is a danger to himself and others. They say they'll drop him at A&E. I ask what to do when he comes back from there...oh well phone us...

Not one police officer seemed to care at all. I understand sometimes their hands are tied but they just didn't seem to care atall. And the way they would just confidently state complete rubbish and when you pointed it out it didn't seem to have any impact. It was their way or the highway. No matter how much ignorance it was based on or how much danger people would be put in. It didn't matter to them.

Been in a very similar situation with my nephew just two weeks ago and I was STUNNED at the police attitude. The Inspector rang my nephew and “had a chat” with him and then called me back to say he was “Confident he’s fine and was just having a wobble” He’s schizophrenic! He wasn’t having a wobble he was making severe threats to the safety of the public and himself!

Unbelievable. My friend is the manager of a supported living place for people with mental health conditions & learning disabilities and last year he had a resident who was putting the other resident’s lives at risk. As my friend is a mental health professional, in his opinion this man met the requirements for sectioning under the mental health act (friend obviously couldn’t go into too much detail).

Yet even when the resident set the entire BUILDING on fire, with everyone in it, they still wouldn’t Section him and told friend to “take the resident over the border into the next county and then make the call.”
So my friend had to have two staff members (both female as all his staff were that day) restrain him whilst friend drove 30 miles to a disused car park in the next county, just in order to have this poor resident Sectioned. Absolute madness of the highest order.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this right now.

If he is having a mental health crisis, arresting for assault wouldn’t be a suitable way to deal, he wouldn’t be charged and they would be criticised for keeping him in a cell because it’s not a suitable place for those reasons.

He would need to be removed to A&E (or a mental health facility) which happened. who would probably release him by the sounds of it for a medication review.

The accommodation staff were not worried, are you aggravating the situation?

Firstly, I was not expecting the ambulance crew to do anything. The police, yes. However, he could not have been 'anywhere' I told them exactly where he was and this is an area covered in cctv so not hard to find someone.

What 'checks' did I not do? I don't have anyone to mind my kids and I didn't want to have to look for a man who is aggressive due to mental illness therefore putting myself (and others) in danger.

That’s part of the issue, getting someone sectioned the bar is very high. You’d be shocked if I showed you the questions asked at our local facility, it needs reviewing, often people are dropped by the Police after the custody nurse recommends a sec 136. Within an hour they are back on the streets with the Police getting a bollocking by the facility.

Who can’t win because they are not medical professionals but have taken the advice of a medical professional who has been overruled. They then have to be taken away from other calls to run around when they are called again knowing they have little or no powers because the Doctors won’t listen.

People do not go into supported accommodation because they are acutely unwell. Normally, he manages his mental health well. It is just because of problems at the house with staff not doing their job.

This is pretty poor practice, OP. I'd take it up with whichever outfit is supposedly running the supported accommodation.

The organisation I work for manages supported accommodation for people with MH issues. It ranges from homes that are staffed 24/7, for people with severe MH issues or recently discharged from hospital, to self-contained properties where they have minimal support but a worker checks in with them at least every 3 months, and they move on to general needs housing once they've been well for a couple of years. All the staff have MH training, and it's pretty comprehensive. They would be more than able to identify if someone's MH was deteriorating, and get MH professionals involved.

I'm afraid that, unless he's subject to a section or a danger to himself or others, the police don't want to know. Even with a section, they're reluctant to get involved.

My DB was detained on a section when the staff thought he was well enough to go into town for a few hours with another patient. They rocked up at my house, 150 miles away, several hours later. The hospital had already been in touch with my parents and told them to call the police if he turned up, and said that the police would detain him (or them) until the psych unit could get them back to hospital, so that's what I did.

It took them 9 hours to come and get them. That was a very long night...

I'm so desperately sorry to read this OP, and all others who have gone through similar - as my name suggests I sadly know exactly what you're going through and how traumatic it is. I'm really angry for you. My dsibling is no longer with us after decades of this type of situation, but I cannot tell you how many times the police were crucial in finding her and escorting her to a place of safety where she was often sectioned and supported back to health. I think it would have broken me to be coping with these incidents without police support.

The police should never have been able to step back the way they have without a suitable alternative in place. Sorry that's not more practically helpful to you right now but you have my deepest sympathy in coping with this. I think all you can do is raise concern after concern, in writing, to his gp, your gp (the knock on effect of this type of trauma is real, so please look after your own health too) his psychiatric and social care teams, and your mp. Anyone who will listen and take it as high as you can. I think we need more formal complaints raised in order to get these issues addressed - problem being the time and effort it takes when you're in it and coping with the fallout. So many patients and their families are going to suffer long term consequences as a result of there not being adequate powers to find and escort seriously unwell patients to safety.

When you are trying to keep a psychotic person calm, you aren't able to do all these things. It's all very well saying this but once the police have left I'm the person trying to keep myself safe. If he knew I'd phoned 999 I would put myself in danger. Could they have not asked who I was? Could they not have thought I might be asking for a reason?

They can't look for someone who it is 'normal to be out'. I mean it's 'normal' for pretty much everyone to be out. So the police don't need to deal with any crimes/public safety/welfare issues anymore? The police accept there is 'no problem' when they themselves were asked to attend the house due to assault? He then left in an agitated state while they were there. His partner has then seen him in this agitated and aggressive state but instead they will take the word of a minimum wage carer with no training in mental health, who doesn't know my partner and has just come on shift? Surely, the police should engage their brains a little more?

Yes, A&E can section him but an agitated person with psychosis is not going to stay in A&E long enough to be assessed. They will still be a danger to themselves and others. And in fact even more dangerous due to the police agitating them further taking them to A&E.

As you rightly say A&E wasn't all they could do. They could use their powers under 136 where they can indeed section him and take him to a psychiatric unit where he would get the help he needs, be kept safe and keep myself/other family and the general public safe. To not do that is what is unfair to him.

Police are there to keep people safe. That is their job.

Why am I with him? I love him and have a lovely relationship with him usually as he is usually well. I wouldn't say I'm 'trapped' in a carer type role but I do have to support him with some things round his mental health. So called 'supportive' accommodation really does very little.

I'm so sorry to hear that. But sadly I can believe it.

I can quite imagine someone unwell setting a house on fire and the police still arguing the toss as to whether they should attend. If they spent less time shouting at people and arguing they might have more time to do their jobs.

Quite right, he shouldn't have been arrested he should have been taken to the 136 suite.

No he should have been taken to the 136 not A&E. If he could have been kept at A&E he would have been sectioned.

The accommodation staff were not worried? Why did they phone the police then? Why is he not allowed back there? The member of staff who told the staff he wasn't worried had never met my partner before and had, had no handover on the situation. The house has already apologised to me about that. Am I aggravating the situation? I'm the only one trying to keep things calm and reduce the amount of assault to the general public and myself!!

There seems a massive hole where the police and ambulance service end up bouncing people around when they don't know what to do with someone in crisis. It's been this way for a very long time, sometimes when they don't have a busy night (rarely especially this time of year) or you have experienced blue light workers you can get excellent help. It's such a shame that this is down to chance and not standard. Not their fault, it's a systemic failure. Feeling absolutely helpless and terrified for not only your partner but other members of the public safety is awful. We have all seen the stories of what can happen, the media then floods us with 'how could this have happened' THIS is how it happens.

I am so sorry your are shouldering all this on your own, it's terrifying. For those who may pass judgement, have a little think about what you would do? Take a moment and have a think about the reality of being a lone woman, walking the streets at night to locate someone who may possibly attack you? Nobody knows how frightening these situations until your in them.

Sending hugs OP x

So they just do nothing and let people be assaulted? Yes, the bar is high but in these situations this is exactly what their 136 power is for. They hide behind 'we are not medical professionals' - noone is asking them to be that.

Is it beyond their ability that if they speak to an accomodation that they find out and understand who they are talking to rather than just making up that it is a psychiatric nurse? Should they not establish whether the person they are talking to knows the person in question? Should they not question why there are no concerns when they called the police earlier due to assault, the person left the accommodation in an aggressive and agitated manner? Should they not wonder why the care worker is saying the person will be back at 11 when they are not allowed to return there? Is that not just basic critical thinking and dare I say it detective work which I thought was a police role?

What a fucking nightmare. You sound extremely resilient and strong. I'm sorry you and your partner aren't being supported properly through what sounds like a highly painful situation.

Unfortunately, the more stretched services believe friends and family will do to carry the burden, the more they will back off and let them. Because you are involved and advocate for him they will have you pegged as his carer, so he has some support. Your best bet is to abdicate responsibility and call the police when your partner arrives at your home telling them he is a danger to you/himself. You might also want to consider complaining about the response tonight and informing your MP.

I’m sorry OP, it’s shameful.

Sounds like he was in the sort of accommodation I used to work in. High turnover of crap staff, they will employ anyone willing to put up with shit hours, low pay, being treated like crap. Staff out of thier depth, mediation often missed.

Its an awful system.

There is already a safeguarding investigation around 2 issues. I'll be speaking to his SW on Monday to raise these new issues. There is no point in raising anything with the accommodation as they are not interested. A new company took over, awful manager meaning all the good staff have left and it is mainly run on bank and a couple of incompetent staff.

Yes, it does seem it doesn't matter how many people get hurt the police are just not interested.

Oh, that sounds really tough. Iy is such hard work just trying to contain the situation and the police just don't understand that.

I'd have more respect for them if they admitted they have limited resources and that they can't always help as they should. Instead all they want to do is argue the toss about how they did everything perfectly and treat you like shit because you dared to be asked to be protected by the police. Then confidently tell you next time you ring 999 they will protect you, and when you point out they didn't help all the times you have dialled 999 over the last 2 days they just shut you down.

The mental health services in this country are terrible anyway. Over stretched and underfunded. There needs to be more to help vulnerable people.

My friend had a borderline psychosis episode, never ever seen her like that before and it was after an extreme period of stress. Trying to get the crisis team to take it seriously, waiting hours upon hours for a phone call while trying to stop her killing herself was horrendous. She has no family and a sister with learning difficulties so it fell onto her friends. It was hugely stressful. I am nd and my own mental health issues and it was very triggering but I did my best for her.

What happens when the person has no one? It's just so bloody sad. And frustrating to me. They are happy plowing money into bollocks, these governments but mental health is never taken seriously. Until it happens to them of course!

I completely agree, there should be a suitable alternative. I have asked the police about this if anything else exists in these situations and they just tell me to phone the police!!

My sympathies OP

The problem is there is no emergency MH services in this country and barely any non emergency MH services

People above are correct, the police are not medical professionals and cant spend the night chasing round trying to find someone, that isnt policing. Equally we shouldnt have a situation where someone is acutely unwell and possibly a danger to themselves or others being on the streets like this, but there isnt a service who will deal with that

Quite often there isnt a 136 suite, there is the custody rooms and thats all there is. Then you have no MH practitioner to come out to assess or they have to drop at A+E where the person will just walk straight back out again.

The police have taken to quoting 'right service right time' or whatever its called, the problem here is there is no right service, it doesnt exist. The ambulance crew wont come out because they feel it needs police oversight or the person is missing. Police wont come out because its a MH issue and needs medical care

Both those things are true and people fall through the cracks.

Thank you that is so kind.

The police attitude seems to be that until you are attacked there is no way of you knowing it is a high possibility, attacks are all completely random with no forewarning. After you have been attacked, the police will make an appointment to take the details of that.

It really makes you understand how these terrible things happens as it seems police no longer protect people, they just make reports of things after the fact.

Thank you, that is kind.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

How utterly terrifying for you and your partner.

And this is exactly why we always end up with an investigation and a "things to improve on" report.

But they don't improve. They continue to wait until til someone hurts themselves or others and then it comes out they've been as failed as their victim.

Yes, this is definitely the attitude. But they will deny it later. Been told by another nasty individual this morning that the police did not tell me to search for him/keep him at my house. They phoned to make an appointment so they could make a report about what has been happening!! They wondered what I expected more than that?! I mean I assume these calls are recorded so them saying these things will be on a recording but I suppose it will probably be accidently lost.

I work in this field.

Sorry OP. This sounds so tough. Some random thoughts from me.

Of course someone with a mental illness, on clozapine and living in suitable housing, can have a fulfilling relationship. Everyone is different and someone whose symptoms are well-controlled with meds and who has insight, can navigate a relationship with a supportive partner.

I am shocked that there has not been more help forthcoming OP. Since the Nottingham deaths, my MH trust is certainly stepping up efforts.

What a shame the police didn’t detain your partner under a S136 in the cafe and take him straight to a place of safety where he could be assessed and possibly detained.

I am sure you know that they can only do a S136 in public and not at your home.

Crisis teams can only really work with people who consent to work with them as they do home visits etc and need to think about safety. But someone at risk who cannot engage with a crisis team should then be a priority for assessment and detention and the police’s 136 powers may be the only option.

Both MH services and police are underfunded so it’s a shit show. But where I am in London there is a dedicated police unit for MH. The police are amazing and on occasions, better than some MH staff.

The staff at his housing can offer him his medication but cannot of course force him to take it. What went wrong do you think?

Finally, there is no excuse for rudeness ever. I am sorry the police spoke to you this way.

OP you are filling in the gaps in service provisions and it’s horrendous. It’s sad but in these situations, the ‘best’ outcome is that your partner is caught shouting in a public place before harm happens, and that a member of the public calls the police who take him to a place of safety under a S136. Unless of course he improves with your care, and keeps his appt on Weds. good luck. I don’t think you should do much more at this stage. Well done.

Yes, it's an awful place. And the police take the word of this random staff member over the person who knows him/has seen him last despite what the staff member says contradicting what the police themselves witnessed and were told earlier! Honestly, it's madness. It appears police take no notes and noone is ever able to know what has happened previously. It is a system that just can't work.

@VegTrug words fail me, that is truly awful. Years of under funding and cuts have come home to roost.
In an EU country: friend seen on own in town, looking a bit lost and bedraggled, police on routine patrol were concerned for safety. Took friend home to find it empty so took friend immediately to hospital 25 kms away where seen within 30 minutes, equivalent of section actioned and friend was then taken to a mental health facility about 50kms and was tucked up in a bed all within 4-5 hours of the police spotting them. Happened this summer. Systems work because health is seen as a priority for everyone.