to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

[UkiUki]

Inspired by another thread on here today but it’s an ongoing trend.

I’ve noticed that most, if not all of the time, when a poster suggests that a behaviour may be caused by ND, other posters jump on them and seem enraged that ‘everything is explained away with neurodiversity these days’.

There has been a lot of progress in understanding these conditions which has naturally contributed to an increase in people getting diagnosed. It is especially increasing in females as, per most medical issues, the parameters for diagnoses were created around male behaviour.

As someone currently in the latter part of the long and stressful diagnosis process, my motivation to suggest ND when I recognise certain traits in situations described is that my heart goes out to those who could flourish with a little extra understanding of how their brains work, especially children. I believe I would be a different person now if I’d had the support I needed growing up, instead of just believing I was lazy, clumsy and weird.

I feel a lot of irritation and sometimes outright anger from some posters, and the suggestion that people are using ND as an excuse somehow.

Aibu to not understand where this annoyance comes from?

@CrazyGoatLady
i think parents like the levels, has it come from America?

But there are definable effects, just because they aren’t immediately obvious to the outside world doesn’t mean they aren’t there. They are experienced by the person with autism who is masking rather than other people. Unfortunately masking to that extent often takes a massive toll on the autistic person.

I have (medically diagnosed) ND children, I have (medically diagnosed) ND in older family members, I might be on the spectrum - what we do as parents is understand that the ND means that people react in different ways to different stimulus and teach them accordingly - what we don't do is allow it as an excuse for poor behaviour that upsets someone else.

I have seen too many instances of but s/he's ND, including being shouted by the individual, to excuse loud, violent, anti social behaviour.

The world needs to adjust to understand different needs however I am not going to let you hit me because you are autistic. (Example only but the words were used by the person concerned)

I look at this from a different view. I think diagnosing where people need help and support is a good thing.

I also think that there should be different diagnosis for different groups of individuals and the grouping of multiple diagnosis as nd has hurt those with classical/ profound/ severe / low functioning autism (pick the term) in particular. Parents and carers are being taken out of the conversation where they aren't nd themselves but the people in this group can't advocate for themselves and what works or is better for those who can advocate isn't necessarily what is better for those with profound autism.

Nobody would self ID or diagnose as having autism if the diagnosis criteria hadn't been widened. Eg little Tommy's mum on mimsnet "my ds doesn't have many friends/ is rude etc" would never have got a reply of "do you think he may have autism?" When autism meant the classical non/ limitedly verbal, requiring 24 hour support etc diagnosis that it was previously.

The more any nd is seen as a difference, something glamorous, an identity etc and not a disability the more harm is done to people of all needs who are severely impacted.

I meant to add this screenshot.

I cannot think of one person that I think has no ND traits, so if EVERYONE looked for a diagnosis it would be ridiculous.
terms are used far to broadly and I suspect it’s linked to the financial benefit of having a diagnosis which is completely wrong.
so yes I am completely sick of everyone saying they are ND, it’s called life we are complex mammals

Nobody would self ID or diagnose as having autism if the diagnosis criteria hadn't been widened. Eg little Tommy's mum on mimsnet "my ds doesn't have many friends/ is rude etc" would never have got a reply of "do you think he may have autism?" When autism meant the classical non/ limitedly verbal, requiring 24 hour support etc diagnosis that it was previously.

I can talk and don't require 24hr care. I'm autistic. Diagnosed by a consultant psychiatrist with 20 years experience. If that's your understanding of what autism is, i think you're the one that's the problem.

The diagnostic criteria was made up by psychiatrists decades ago, mainly based on how males present with these conditions - do we accept any other areas of medicine standing still for decades? Do we diagnose people with cancer based on 40 year old criteria, or do we accept that as science advances, diagnostic criteria changes and we gain a better understanding?

What- there are financial benefits to being ND?! Brilliant i didn't know that! How can i get in on that? What financial benefits specifically and how do i get them?

Financial benefit…if you’re going to make such accusations please back it up with actual sources.

No matter how many times we tried to explain to some parents that saying level 1, 2 or 3 autism is meaningless to most people outside of a psychiatric service and we need to look at each child holistically (we used stuff like communication passports, sensory inventories, learning needs assessments, etc) some of them still clung to it like a badge of honour. And you just knew the kind of parents they were going to be. The ones who enjoy telling other parents and other autistic people they don't really have any needs and life isn't really that hard for them. Or the "oh, my child is only level 1, so it's not that bad, he'll have a normal life!" ones who refuse all support for them or even don't tell their kid about their diagnosis.

I've had that stuff said to my face often enough as an openly autistic psychologist, "well, you're probably only a level 1/only have a bit of Asperger's, you're not that autistic are you?" I've had parents ask for another psychologist/family therapist because they didn't think an autistic person could be competent at it, and I've had parents accuse me of lying about my diagnosis. I had parents weaponise me in front of their kids "see, she's got autism and she's managed to become a doctor!" which I found deeply uncomfortable.

The ableism I had from parents, and no longer feeling able to deal with it every day, was part of the reason I left, if I'm honest, along with the issues with waiting lists, resources and clueless managers. There's only so much compassion you have left in the tank. It was exhausting constantly having to filter, because of course you do need to understand and be compassionate about why people are behaving in these ways - they often don't know any other way, they're burnt out, exhausted, don't know where to turn, having difficulty accepting their child has problems, are undiagnosed ND themselves. It was great when the support and the family therapy helped. But there were just too many parents who already knew better than we did, and you'd just be there like "then why are you here? You've waited 18 months for this support, moaned at the admin staff every week for that entire duration, and now you want to flounce because I won't write Level 2 autism or a meaningless phrase like complex needs on your child's assessment report".

Well all that really says is that people with severe autism need more targeted and continuing support. It doesn't mean people who are not severely affected by their autism don't also need support.

I'm not sure how i feel about being told someone like me being autistic, harms other people with autism, mainly because that's a load of bollocks. I can't exactly just stop being autistic because other people are more severely affected, and i can't just switch off all the ways it affects me or my children in order to keep diagnosis numbers under a certain artificial level.

Hardly need to reference a source, I clearly meant PIP

I agree OP, it stands out so easily to me now and explains away so many behaviours that people just think are odd or difficult. I feel it creates more patience and understanding, and actually helps both parties not just the ND person.. I've felt relief sometimes to realise someone is behaving like they are not to be a dick on purpose etc
Of course it shouldn't be an excuse for negative behaviours but it's an explanation.

😂😂😂😂😂😂

Will someone please tell me what these financial benefits are and get me some? I guess I missed that memo 🤣

If you mean things like PIP, or the disability component of UC, then most ND people unless they have other chronic health conditions, severe and enduring mental health issues or cognitive impairments won't qualify for those.

Totally agree with this.
Am also ND

Have you ever tried to apply for PIP?

My disabilities mean that the process of applying for PIP seems impossibly complicated - endless forms, interviews, appeals etc but as you're saying it's really easy free money, maybe I'll give it a go!

Of course, why didn’t I think of that. Yes PiP, that famously easy to get benefit that all autistic people are receiving.

Sarcasm in case that isn’t abundantly evident.

You've misused my words and my point stands. As the diagnosis criteria has changed (this is a fact, autism is an umbrella diagnosis) to include more presentations, people are going to look at more people and suggest/ conclude nd where as previously they wouldn't have.

You’ve expressed this so well

And herein lies the problem. What was once a very wide spectrum of normal is becoming narrower and narrower to a point where nuance and difference in personality is not allowed for

Agree with this. And labels then seem to be being slapped on everything that would once have fallen under that spectrum of normal.

Im addition to the suggestions of being ND, no one seems to be nervous anymore - of flying, exams, speaking to big groups of people. They have anxiety. Instead of being down for a couple of weeks after x event, they have depression.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

No it isnt a load of bollocks. It may not be you personally but the widening of the diagnosis had hurt a very specific group of people. People who aren't as serverly impacted (generalisation not aimed directly at you) can stop advocating for everyone with autism especially including the more severe because their version of autism is a million miles away from somebody who is profoundly impacted. In addition and again meant more generally, groups eg autism advocates who don't include parents/ carers of those who can't advocate for themselves can stop excluding them.

More targeted support is needed in addition to more understanding of what autism means to them and not people who self diagnose.

Because it is.

Yes and I always seem to think of people who are so quick to dismiss it, that they are probably neurodiverse themselves. That's why it annoys them so much. They are in deep denial. Haha.

What about those who are not self diagnosed but who are not as severely affected?