to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

[UkiUki]

Inspired by another thread on here today but it’s an ongoing trend.

I’ve noticed that most, if not all of the time, when a poster suggests that a behaviour may be caused by ND, other posters jump on them and seem enraged that ‘everything is explained away with neurodiversity these days’.

There has been a lot of progress in understanding these conditions which has naturally contributed to an increase in people getting diagnosed. It is especially increasing in females as, per most medical issues, the parameters for diagnoses were created around male behaviour.

As someone currently in the latter part of the long and stressful diagnosis process, my motivation to suggest ND when I recognise certain traits in situations described is that my heart goes out to those who could flourish with a little extra understanding of how their brains work, especially children. I believe I would be a different person now if I’d had the support I needed growing up, instead of just believing I was lazy, clumsy and weird.

I feel a lot of irritation and sometimes outright anger from some posters, and the suggestion that people are using ND as an excuse somehow.

Aibu to not understand where this annoyance comes from?

As someone currently in the latter part of the long and stressful diagnosis process, my motivation to suggest ND when I recognise certain traits in situations described

You're going through a 'long and stressful diagnosis" and think that recognising certain traits equips you with the ability to suggest ND? If only the doctors were so clever, you'd not be doing that "long and stressful diagnosis".

It's more the lack of understanding. I used to have a friend who claimed he was Autistic because he was good at maths. I know people with Autism who are average at maths and better at arts based subjects

I don’t agree. There was a thread a few weeks ago where a poster described some physical symptoms and another poster had similar before and it turned out to be something serious. It’s like everyone who gets constant migraines doesn’t have a brain tumor but it could be a symptom. It doesn’t hurt anyone to ask the question if it doesn’t turn out to be the case but it could hurt if the question isn’t asked and it does.

Most of the autistic people I know are actually very ‘well behaved’ in the typical sense. I also know a couple of ND children who are badly behaved as well as being ND.

As the saying goes if you have met one person with autism you have met one person with autism ,
I appreciate that you may have hard a time getting and understanding your diagnosis but that doesn't mean you csn diagnosis others it's such a broad spectrum.

I agree with some people just having these behaviours but we can’t know that’s the case or not from a short story on here. My confusion is why it’s seen as a negative to mention it could be a ND trait.

The problem is that the widening scope of diagnosis means that the differences between NT people and people with autism are getting less and less, as this research shows:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2747847

(The authors also looked at schizophrenia and found a very different effect, so it’s not just about increased awareness.)

As one of these researchers said, if it continues there will soon come a point where there is no difference between some NT people and some with an autism diagnosis:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190821111816.htm

This then trivialises the diagnosis. Recent use of ‘mental health’ in relation to just about everything has done the same to depression. As someone who has suffered from severe depression for several decades, I have found it increasingly frustrating seeing the illness trivialised over the past 10 years by people pathologising every unhappiness. Feeling down because you hate your job, broke up with someone or even just had a bad day isn’t a mental health issue, it’s a normal reaction to life not always being a bed of roses. I can have a really crappy time in life and my MH be fine, and vice versa.

Removing stigma and making sure people can access help when they need it is important, but so is ensuring that diagnoses aren’t rendered meaningless by over-inflating their scope or over-using medical terms in everyday life.

What is the point though? Unless the subject is a child no one cares if neurodiversity causes the behaviours they have a problem with. They don't like the behaviour and will act accordingly. Adults are pretty much on their own in this world unless someone is paid to care.

Because in the absence of any other information how is it helpful to suggest that someone who is unmotivated and apparently lazy ND?
They might be or they might be depressed or maybe they are just bone idle ?

It's not the ND part which is a negative it's the overused suggestion.
Like if someone went and replied to every thread where OP mentions digestive isaues, that they all must have IBS.

If people familiar with ND hadn’t recognised certain traits in me then I wouldn’t be going through this process. If MN had been around when I was a child, and my parents had posted about my ‘clumsiness’ and ‘laziness’ and ‘social struggles’ and someone had suggested ND, maybe I would’ve got an earlier diagnosis and avoided some of the struggles I’ve had.

Was it people who know you or random people online basing it on few sentences?

But I don’t think posters are diagnosing per se. I think they’re recognising things in others they’ve seen in themselves or those close to them and offering a suggestion of something to look into. Yes, every ND person is unique, just like every NT person, but there are certain recognisable traits that allow diagnosis, otherwise these conditions wouldn’t even exist.

But you can only speak from your perspective and how ND has affected you
And just because someone may have traits that are associated with ND does not mean they are.

Every single one of us is somewhere on the spectrum.

I think the needle can move around that dial and no one can say who or what anyone is anymore with certainty.

I do agree with others about excuses being made for mad, bad, destructive behaviour often being attributed to (undiagnosed) ASD. Sometimes it is, more often it's a cop out.

Because it's given as the explanation for everything. Do you think he/she could be autistic is on every thread where someone is being a dick, along with accusations of narcissism and if the person is over 45, the fact that their behaviour is probably due to dementia.

Yes, sometimes weird/unusual/difficult behaviour is caused by neurodiversity or dementia. Sometimes, people are just being dicks.

(mum to a ND teen who is mostly lovely, sometimes a dick)

Indeed however the thread I read this morning was about someone's daughter being a bit lazy and straight away a poster suggested ASD, on absolutely no other evidence, its not helpful and you have no idea whst experience or backgrounds posters have anyway.

But widening the scope shouldn’t detract from people getting the help they need. Someone being diagnosed with a very treatable form of cancer doesn’t mean that someone with a very severe and progressed form goes without more intense and suitable treatment. I am able to hold down a full time job, live completely independently and raise my children without needing intervention from other services. Someone being ND people can’t do any of these things. That doesn’t mean I don’t struggle every minute of every day to do ‘normal’ things that NT people find easy or don’t even think about. We would require very different forms of support, so my diagnosis shouldn’t take anything away from them.

Thank you for the articles as well, I will read them later.

It's actually still under diagnosed in women and girls.

There is nothing wrong with seeking diagnosis and understanding yourself. It's fine to hear no.

I grew up in the 90's, and WISH there had been more understanding. I've had OCD since I was 6 (counting the dots on the ceiling endlessly, walking in a particular way to stop family dying in a car crash, having to touch things with both hands at the same pressure, etc), but this was never picked up on. I also had significant sensory difficulties which really impacted me as a child. I licked my hands excessively for years because I couldn't stand most textures. The only thing that helped was wearing a particular pair of glittery purple gloves, and I used to sob when they weren't available. Kids bullied me as I'd wear them in summer. I have weird tics like shrugging my shoulder/clearing my throat. I felt like an alien socially and I've never fit in with most people. Other kids just seemed to be able to get along easily, whereas I could barely speak as I was so shy, and I had no idea what to say. I've adapted over the years but still struggle significantly socially. I was obsessed with my hobbies to the point of making spreadsheets, and if I was into something, it was all consuming for me. I found school easy in terms of academics, but I was also very much a kid who was 'away with the fairies' and known for being chaotic and forgetful. I'm exceptionally disorganised and have been in debt before as I struggle to cope with organising and managing money. I struggled significant with mental illness when I went away for uni. I don't think I could cope living alone. I'm very easily overwhelmed.

The point is, I've spent my entire life feeling like an absolute freak. Even as an adult, I'm known as loveable but very eccentric. Most people find me odd or just a bit offbeat socially, though I'm far better than I used to be. These things have made my life hard at times. I still don't have a diagnosis, but strongly suspect I have some combination of AuDHD or sensory processing disorder. OCD is quite common with neurodivergent. It's taken many years of private therapy to be 'okay' with myself.

It would have helped me massively to grow up with support or some understanding that there were other kids likee me. I wouldn't want any one else to grow up feeling alienated from their peers like I did, as it's left me with life long poor self-esteem.

Why does it have to have a label like "time blindness" though? Why is it not just a character or personality quirk or just how you are or something to remember because you're not great at it?

I feel like people are increasingly using labels as a coping mechanism or get out clause in a way that's weirdly unhealthy.

Same goes for peri/menopause. "Oh it's my peri (not me)."

It just seems like people doing anything they can do escape personal responsibility for anything instead of just going "I'm tired because I've had a long day" it has to be "I'm tired because I'm [whatever diagnosis]."

I have friends who go out of their way to get diagnosed with things and then bring it up literally every second they can and use it as a reason to not get a job etc.

"I forgot to turn the light off because I'm ADHD." You just forgot to turn the light off Karen, like every human being has done at least once in their lives.

It needs to stop being used as an excuse. It's even been used as an excuse in a murder trial. Saw this on TV yesterday.

I’m sorry if that’s what you’ve experienced because it shouldn’t be that way. I’ve had a terrible time with medical professionals but I’m fortunate to have a DH and a couple of close friends who are happy I’m going through those process as it’s added some context to our relationships.

Yes, they could be. Usually people on here are after advice on what could be the issue. Unless they are medical professionals, people can only speak from their own experience.

IDK. I think ND people get upset rightly when someone is being a bit of a shit and someone pipes up its a ND trait.

All my kids are ND. I suspect me and dh are. But unless you was to ask me outright I would never ever suggest anyone might be ND. Never. A mum from my sons SN school asked me if thought she was ND as someone else had suggested it. She has two ND kids snd was OUTRAGED at the suggestion. So minefield to swerve imo.