to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

[UkiUki]

Inspired by another thread on here today but it’s an ongoing trend.

I’ve noticed that most, if not all of the time, when a poster suggests that a behaviour may be caused by ND, other posters jump on them and seem enraged that ‘everything is explained away with neurodiversity these days’.

There has been a lot of progress in understanding these conditions which has naturally contributed to an increase in people getting diagnosed. It is especially increasing in females as, per most medical issues, the parameters for diagnoses were created around male behaviour.

As someone currently in the latter part of the long and stressful diagnosis process, my motivation to suggest ND when I recognise certain traits in situations described is that my heart goes out to those who could flourish with a little extra understanding of how their brains work, especially children. I believe I would be a different person now if I’d had the support I needed growing up, instead of just believing I was lazy, clumsy and weird.

I feel a lot of irritation and sometimes outright anger from some posters, and the suggestion that people are using ND as an excuse somehow.

Aibu to not understand where this annoyance comes from?

Unfortunately yes, as a now former CAMHS professional, and parent of ND teens, there are some parents who are like this. And as you say, there's some who are just exhausted and can't do more than "survival parenting" and it's just too much to do AutPlay or coping strategies or do anything beyond the basics. As professionals we have to understand what is behind what may look like resistance before labelling families resistant.

Many of the neurodiversity movement's current cohort of influencers are toxic. Some of them seem to demand all kinds of special treatment and claim not to be able to do basic shit that they've been doing since they were kids after having a diagnosis for all of five minutes. ND excuses every single flaw they have or thing they aren't good at. They weaponise RSD and call people ableist if they are ever called out for any BS, saying how they all have such terrible imposter syndrome and feel so bad about themselves really, and they're so introverted and socially anxious they need to post sad selfies on a daily basis for sympathy and likes. They give the rest of us who have just been trying to get on with it as best we can and had to fight for even the smallest reasonable adjustments a bad name.

I'm increasingly seeing this same crap in the younger staff in my workplace, no doubt because they consume the narcissistic crap these influencers peddle, and/or had parents who didn't think they should have to learn any life skills. Can't deal with the gentlest of constructive feedback because they're ND and have RSD. Can't request annual leave via a system and wait for a decision because it triggers "demand avoidance" or anxiety. Can't be on time for anything because time blindness. Resilience and perseverance is "toxic positivity" or oppression. Adhering to the most basic of social norms that help people live alongside each other in communities harmoniously is ableism.

I'm absolutely here for making the world more accessible, understanding and accommodating difference (while still maintaining a level of community cohesion) recognising where we need more equitable systems and treatment, and actually better universal design with accessibility built in is good for everyone. But this self obsessed, commodified insta/TikTok version of neurodiversity can fuck right off.

@CrazyGoatLady That is the best explanation of this kind of thing, and although I posted in support of the "other side" - I totally agree with you.

The terms and openness and discussion about these things are helpful tools for communication and mutual understanding - it is a problem when they get used as a weapon or shield.

At the same time, I think it's important to recognise (and I can see that you do) that many people dealing with ND whether in themselves or their child(ren) are not magically able to fix all of the problems related to the ND the minute they get the diagnosis, or often, fully, ever.

I do think there is a tone of expectation on these threads from some posters that if you find out you have ADHD or whatever then, well, get medication and you'll be cured! It doesn't work like that - medication is only ever going to alleviate some symptoms, not make everything go away and it can take time and experimentation to work out what is the right medication and balance side effects etc. Not to mention the fact it isn't active in your system 24/7 or you would never be able to sleep. And it can get disrupted by ordinary things like your hormonal cycle or a cold or a bad sleep patch.

Or OK - well now you know about time blindness you can simply not be blind to time any more and find some magic perfect strategy to combat it and never be late or lose track of time ever again! - ??? - I mean, yes, I am significantly better at managing time than I was before diagnosis/treatment/doing a ridiculous amount of reading/learning. But I still have the same difficulty with it.

I was diagnosed in 2016 and I'm still learning and putting into place coping strategies and there are still ways I definitely feel impaired by ADHD, but it's not like I'm just sitting back going "Ah well, won't bother to fix that one, can't help it!" but I also can't work on everything at once and nothing is a quick fix, it takes a lot of effort and time and experimentation to change habits and learnt behaviours which have been there my whole life.

So communication helps IME.

I once read a meme asking: Why do people insist it takes years for a qualified professional to diagnose you as ND, when the playground bullies can identify you in 30 seconds?

This in't actually true, people question lots of diagnoses. Usually they are things where the diagnostic criteria or origins of the disease or tests are not all that clear, are poorly established, or in some other ways raise questions.

There are people out there who loved looking down on people we now know to have ND as “weird” or “not coping”, or even just as less able and successful than themselves. They revelled in feeling better than others.

Now that we are becoming more aware of ND and seeking to make reasonable adjustments this sort of person HATES it, as they are now losing their advantage over ND people. Attempts to level the playing field mean that NT people lose their inherent advantage at life, and there is a type of person who hates that.

They will minimise and say “oh surely everyone feels like that sometimes”, or claim “oh the world and his dog are ND these days” with an eye roll. They may even claim that ND children and adults are now getting an advantage- in the same way as men sometimes claim women have an advantage when in fact we aren’t even anywhere near parity. Because effort is being made to close an unfair gap, those who used to profit from the unfairness don’t like it.

That's not true at all. Autism and associated conditions are on a spectrum; according to how a someone's symptoms manifest themselves, that person will be 'somewhere on the spectrum'. It's certainly not as simple as autistic vs not autistic.

The problem is everyone is diagnosed with something now... said it before - when everyone is special, no one is special.

What do you call a person who has a condition which is no different from people without the condition?

A person who is just normal no condition.

A disease etc is largely defined by it's effects which are definable and seperable from those who don't have the condition. For example, if you have no flu symptoms, you don't have flu - even if you are a carrier of the flu virus in your body.If person a is not neurodiverse, and person bi is the same as person a in relevant measures - it is meaningless to call one nd and one not.

I think that many children with severe asd are waiting too long for diagnosis because the system is struggling to cope with the number of referrals. Many problems with a child trigger a questionnaire and potentially a referral for neurodiversity diagnosis.

I worry that people who are introverts, shy, quiet, socially anxious, or like reading/maths/birdwatching/drawing or just being alone get told they must be autistic.

I read one thread where a mother whose children were distressed by crowds of noisy children running and pushing in the school corridors had lots of responses suggesting her children were neurodivergent. Surely it's completely normal to be distressed by noisy, pushing, shoving crowds?!

So although the greater awareness of neurodiversity can only be a good thing, I don't like it when it's used to dismiss other concerns or experiences in that way.

I’m yet to see it on MN. Could just be because I’m drawn to ND threads though.

Not really. None of my daughter’s friends are bothered by the loud crowded corridors or the echoing in the PE hall. They don’t give it a second thought.

I think people who dont have ND dc dont understand that some literally wont listen or do as they are told (pda/odd etc).
When dd was a toddler there would be no, no no, etc as i got up to physically prevent her doing things. She never really stopped that.
So instead of thinking thats a child and they will do what they are told, imagine the child is more like a teen with an attitude and at school/nursery you are not there to physically stop them. This is possibly what you would imagine from a low iq/disabled etc child. But dc has actually very high iq.
Rewards/punishment just end up escalating the behaviour.
And this is how you conclude it is SEN because really the child is only harming themself, in that they lose friends, teachers hate them. But they cannot/will not stop behaving in a detrimental way. Despite explanations of what results in etc.
General children are cautious of misbehaviour with their parents due to consequences and at primary most are nervous of HT and being told off by teacher.

Lots of kids and adults are though. By itself, it means nothing.

Care to share what your “professionalism” is as you seem to crop up on a lot threads making these accusations.

It’s not what I see. For a start there is no help of support for struggling autism children. Schools are pretty much left to it with often very little expertise so I presume you’re a TA?

You telling struggling autistic children what they think and insisting on a one size fits all approach to autism alongside your refusal to listen to parents rings big alarm bells

Then it's a problem with the underfunded and understaffed system, not with families who want to understand why their child is struggling. Also until they're diagnosed, how do you define how "severely autistic" someone is?

Thanks tories, for stripping away all mental health support and cutting support for ND diagnoses to the bone. My dc is on a waiting list that's expected to take at least 2 years for an ASD diagnosis. We haven't yet even been acknowledged on the ADHD waiting list which he was referred for 8 months ago.

It's almost like jealousy from some people. How dare i seek a diagnosis for my (very clearly ND child) because other people are worse off. Other people also being autistic doesn't mean my child doesn't need help too. Do you just resent children for needing help? Because it sounds like it.

I was diagnosed late too and although I have had to adapt, I have only very recently become a fully functioning member of society and that is due in part to the understanding and reasonable adjustments a diagnosis gives me.

Just because tough love and being pushed out of your comfort zone worked for you, doesn't mean it works for everyone. Autistic people are 9 times more likely to kill themselves. Mental health issues are rife. Only 26% of autistic people are in any sort of employment. What we have been doing up until now clearly wasn't working, what they are doing now may.

i dont think it always helps to jump in and diagnose
it doesnt solve the issue

Also all this talk of too many people getting diagnosed these days - ND people aren't a new invention, you know. We've always existed, just never diagnosed. Looking back at my family with my diagnosis and everything I've learned over the last few years, pretty much every one is ND. Of course no chance of a diagnosis for my parents, aunts and uncles and grandparents so rather than being diagnosed and given support, they've all been affected by severe anxiety and depression, some alcoholics, hoarders, unable to work, emotionally immature, some have been abusive to their loved ones (either intentionally or not) because of a lack of any kind of help or understanding and decades of masking turned them bitter and twisted. Some of them function to the outside world but behind closed doors is a different story. I'm talking about 15- 20 specific close relatives here, not ND people in general.

Their undiagnosed ND has caused general trauma which has echoed throughout my life. It's THAT which early diagnosis, knowledge and support will help to prevent in the future. I don't want my dc to grow up like my undiagnosed relatives because that life is hell. We should be more concerned about ND people who are not getting diagnosed.

I do have a theory that it's those people who most often shout about too many diagnoses because they feel like everyone should suffer the way they had to. Which just goes to show those people could have done with earlier support because that's an awful mindset to have.

well the spectrum has broadened,
previously it was non verbal autism being diagnosed

I have seen ‘meets some of the criteria for an autism diagnosis’ on professional reports. It isn’t as if there is a blood test for it.

well there are levels which some people use

Just because none of your daughters friends dislike loud, crowded corridors does not mean that’s it not normal.
Both are normal.

And herein lies the problem. What was once a very wide spectrum of normal is becoming narrower and narrower to a point where nuance and difference in personality is not allowed for.

What I cannot understand is that surely people who are actually ND should be the group most negatively affected by over diagnosis and pathologising of normal human experiences.
It trivialises how you experience the world and puts a huge strain on the services you require.

I know many people who have self diagnosed with various conditions and go around using them as excuses.

We'd stopped using them in our trust by the time I left CAMHS. Levels and functioning labels don't actually give you an accurate picture of someone's strengths and impairments and was often a misnomer because many of the difficulties an autistic child had were often due to co-occurring conditions (e.g. developmental delay LD, FAS, chromosomal abnormalities). Similarly, labeling an autistic child with a high IQ or who was doing fine academically "Level 1" or "high functioning" meant the support needs they did have weren't recognised.

We also recognised those labels caused divisiveness among parents and families because there'd be a bit of "well your kid's fine, she's only level 1, why should he get anything, what about mine that's level 2 and only gets this". Which I don't blame parents for, because the support was inadequate and not enough of it to go round/long waiting lists. But you did get the whole "but my kid's level 3, my life is harder, I should jump the queue over the families with level 1 kids". And frankly as a professional that's just not what you need to be dealing with, you want to focus on actually supporting people, not mediating squabbles about waiting lists and resource allocation.