to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

[UkiUki]

Inspired by another thread on here today but it’s an ongoing trend.

I’ve noticed that most, if not all of the time, when a poster suggests that a behaviour may be caused by ND, other posters jump on them and seem enraged that ‘everything is explained away with neurodiversity these days’.

There has been a lot of progress in understanding these conditions which has naturally contributed to an increase in people getting diagnosed. It is especially increasing in females as, per most medical issues, the parameters for diagnoses were created around male behaviour.

As someone currently in the latter part of the long and stressful diagnosis process, my motivation to suggest ND when I recognise certain traits in situations described is that my heart goes out to those who could flourish with a little extra understanding of how their brains work, especially children. I believe I would be a different person now if I’d had the support I needed growing up, instead of just believing I was lazy, clumsy and weird.

I feel a lot of irritation and sometimes outright anger from some posters, and the suggestion that people are using ND as an excuse somehow.

Aibu to not understand where this annoyance comes from?

I agree early diagnosis is important, but I think in recent years there has become a tendency to excuse and minimise negative behaviour that impact on others and berate people raising concerns about these negative behaviours. Rather than the focus of early diagnosis as an opportunity to build effective life skills and adaptations into "normal" society, which whilst it may be exhausting masking, life does require some degree of conformity and adherence to social norms and rules.

Your teacher was a bully.

Almost all of my female friends have recently self diagnosed with ADHD - I do think it’s a problem. I work with SEN kids and I worry the frivolous use of the label is leading to people taking it less seriously in CYP, which is a huge concern cos we’ve worked so fucking hard to get it taken seriously in the first place!

”Oh sorry I’m late, it’s my ADHD!” from friends being tossed around is not helpful in the slightest. It’s become the new “I’m a little bit OCD” 😬

That does make sense explained like that. I guess was seeing it a bit different, as in I don’t always see it as arsehole behaviour where other people might. So if people suggest a child who is constantly losing valuables is ungrateful and careless, I wouldn’t see me saying, “have you considered ND?” as implying ND people are ungrateful and careless. I’d see it as me saying “maybe they aren’t actually ungrateful or careless, maybe there is something else going on.”

I get enraged when they suggest shitty and abusive behaviour or someone simply being an arsehole is attributed to being ND and I will call people out on that.

It's very unfair when people reel it out like it's fact when it's someone's opinion.

I'm more likely to hurt myself more than anyone and it really truly upsets me that people think being ADHD is an excuse for things or that it's overdiagnosed or that you are simply abusive with these traits.

It has to stop. Posting things as facts when they are not is downright harmful.

I don't mean symptoms and traits that can be helped like in the workplace or social Etc.

OP it's great that you are learning coping skills, self acceptance and self empathy, but please don't think you need to save the world from ND self loathing or selfharm.

"Captain Save the DAYS" often do more harm than good. You are not equipped to nurse other people through their realisation of ND.

Because of your diagnosis and your personal experiences, it is impossible for you to be impartial. Despite your best intentions, your subjective interpretations will be filtered through your hyper focus on ND.

Your boundaries and judgment are formed by your life experience, you will see ND everywhere, because you are so hyper focused on it yourself. You will lack perspective and balance when forming judgments on those around you.

Your kindly meant suggestions may be harmful to others.

I am yet to see a post like that where the poster hasn’t considered and/or ruled out neurodiversity.

I often see the poster being asked if they considered neurodiversity, they say they have but there aren’t any other characteristics other than X and being told to look again because that one trait might mean they’ve overlooked other traits - almost berated into exploring a diagnosis that they themselves are clear doesn’t fit them.

I’m not against diagnosis where it might make a difference but labelling everyone with a quirk is unhelpful.

I sat in an Exclusion panel at a local school last Monday.
There was a 15 year old boy there known to be a gang member and absolutely terrorises the school.
His parents refuse to admit he ever does anything wrong but when presented with clear evidence they claimed he was "hyper active" so couldn't help it.
Thats the sort of shit that causes people to dismiss ND

I get sick of it being used as an excuse. Any thread where the behaviour is selfish then youll see depression and ND used as an excuse. Sometimes people aren't ND they are just arseholes.

And even if the person is ND they still have to be accountable for their actions. I see posts all the time along the lines of I don't see why I/my child/anyone should have to mask their behaviour. It's such a selfish way of looking at things. I am accommodating and sympathetic, and I do understand some of the difficulties and issues around being ND. But everyone else in the world also has issues, wants and needs.

For an example someone will post about children screaming and running around in a coffee shop and it ruining the experience. The replies will be "maybe they are ND, just imagine how difficult it is for the parents." And yes that maybe true but if you've decided to treat yourself to a coffee, which is ridiculously expensive, you have every right not to want to deal with someone else's children.

Another post that regularly comes up which i have a personal experience of is garden use. We had a neighbour a few years ago whose child would constantly scream in the garden from 7am until 8pm. It made wfh during lockdown incredibly difficult as all of our rooms except the kitchen and bathroom faced towards their garden. We couldn't have windows open or sit in the garden due to the constant noise. Was the child ND? Quite possibly and I have sympathy for the parents. But at the same time I should be able to enjoy my own home and garden.

Ultimately there just needs to be balance. Everyone has to share spaces and work together.

I personally hate the term ‘neurospicy’. I think I understand why people use it but for me it’s glamourising it. I can see where it has inspired positive things about me, but I don’t see ND itself as something I would wish to be if I had a choice. It doesn’t make me ‘spicy’ it just makes things more difficult than I wish they were.

Tbh, it sounds like a parent problem in those posts. The parents could take the child away to calm down if it's a meltdown or take them inside the house if they are screaming. A child learns from it's parents.

Me too

I just sat and bawled my eyes out when I read a book that summed me up to a t when my GP suggested adhd. I've struggled my whole life with stupid things but despite not being able to revise I've got a MSc so can't possibly have any issues ive been told. Once I calmed down then I got angry at the life I could have had. The worse thing for me is I was taken to the Dr's a lot as a kid and was told I'd either grow out of it or it was all in my head.

And those of us who are ND and don't like loud noise are constantly told on here, tough.

Yes, I agree with that.

Thank you, he made life quite unpleasant for me.

The above figures are for Scotland.

If everyone is neuro-diverse, or has some additional need, then what does it mean anymore? If you have, for example, everyone identified as needing additional support, do you need a new category for those who need extra additional support?

A category such as Autistic System Disorder only helps us to understand people if it excludes normal people as well as including those who are different in the same way. If you loosen the diagnostic criteria and diagnose everyone who thinks they, or their child, is "a bit aspie" then the diagnosis loses all meaning and usefulness.

It's not easy, because the dividing line for these sorts of things is a bit fuzzy, but you have to try and keep a dividing line for it to be of any use.

I do see the frustration in that. I wouldn’t want it taken less seriously.

I am one who get angry when immediately it's "they may be ND" as soon as any unwanted behavior in an adult or child comes up. What this does it tar all persons with ND with the same brush. Many many many ND adults and children who may not have these behaviors are now lumped in because any and all behavior must be ND. That is extremely unfair.

Oh yes, I didn’t mean when people say it as a fact, more when they recognise a trait and suggest it might be worth exploring.

Like you, my ND affects me far more than it affects other people and I get so angry with myself when it affects other people. I know I’d be devastated and quite embarrassed if people thought I was using ND as some sort of excuse which is why I’d be a little reluctant to tell people outside of my inner circle for now, whilst I come to terms with what it means to me.

This is my thinking but others say it's ableist.

Autism is a huge spectrum ,for some people they can't help screaming, my son is 14 and completely non verbal and has a very limited understanding of the world around him He screams loudly and frequently
Of course I don't allow him to do it for hours on end
But sometimes there is a reason for the behaviour my son doesn't havecthe capacity to be accountable for his actions

Because not every ‘negative’ behaviour is caused by NDity, nor is every ND person with ND dysfunctional. My children, siblings and I are all ND (various blends of ASD, ADHD, dyspraxia and dyslexia). Not a one of us is alike, in personality nor behaviours. For each disorganised person there is one who is anal/OCD; for each motormouth talkative person there is a shy, deeply introverted one.

The post you refer to was filled with people armchair-diagnosing a 12yo adolescent female who has just started senior school and being forgetful as having ADHD… based on stereotypes, eff all information, and then those PPs doubled-down in the face of the mum/OPs very clear refuting of all the other potential diagnostic criteria (one had the gall to say the mum was wrong, FFS).

Sometimes people are just rude, or introvert, or talkative and extrovert, messy and disorganised, going through puberty and the stress of new senior schools. Not everything is due to neurodiversity and, frankly, it is fricking annoying - and deeply narrow minded - that every negative trait commented on is immediately ascribed to it. Some of us are getting seriously effed off by it.

I will reflect on what you’ve said as I don’t want to cause harm unintentionally

I don't think people are against neurodiversity. As a teacher there is a huge delay in diagnosis for any kind of SEND and a contributing factor is people pursuing diagnosis that don't apply. I have lost track of the amount of parents who have come to me having convinced their child has autism, ADHD, dyslexia etc and demand child is referred and are irate when there is no progress in weeks. Whilst kids who have been deservedly referred are still on a waiting list 2/3 years on from their original referral.

Too many people without professional experience are giving this advice without actually knowing the whole picture.

Exactly. To the extent that MN is helpful to and/or supportive of those who are ND, it's only so to those whose ND means they're unable to prevent themselves from making noise and being disruptive. Anyone whose ND means that they need peace and quiet can get lost. I've seen ND people described as ableist on here for suggesting that some with ND need quiet spaces.

Regardless of your reasons for being late, it is still disrespectful and selfish to constantly be late. If you know you have so called “time blindness” then take measures to fix the issue, don’t just lean on being ND to explain why you are always late and never actually fix the issue.
It may make you feel better knowing WHY you are always late, but it doesn’t really help the people who are left waiting for you. It just sounds like an excuse.

Totally agree - if I’d seen your post first I could have saved myself the time of typing mine above!