to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

[UkiUki]

Inspired by another thread on here today but it’s an ongoing trend.

I’ve noticed that most, if not all of the time, when a poster suggests that a behaviour may be caused by ND, other posters jump on them and seem enraged that ‘everything is explained away with neurodiversity these days’.

There has been a lot of progress in understanding these conditions which has naturally contributed to an increase in people getting diagnosed. It is especially increasing in females as, per most medical issues, the parameters for diagnoses were created around male behaviour.

As someone currently in the latter part of the long and stressful diagnosis process, my motivation to suggest ND when I recognise certain traits in situations described is that my heart goes out to those who could flourish with a little extra understanding of how their brains work, especially children. I believe I would be a different person now if I’d had the support I needed growing up, instead of just believing I was lazy, clumsy and weird.

I feel a lot of irritation and sometimes outright anger from some posters, and the suggestion that people are using ND as an excuse somehow.

Aibu to not understand where this annoyance comes from?

Excessive, poor analysis and projection are a modern hobby. Unqualified people suggesting other people are ND is rude, invasive and lacks decorum.

Armchair/barstool psychoanalysis is a rude hobby, we are not all specimens in a pitri dish. The motivations for the analysis and poorly formed conclusions are often questionable.

I am currently perimenopausal, I regularly research the menopausal process. It's helping me to navigate what I am experiencing. Personal experience and personal research does not qualify me to make medical suggestions to other people.

There seems to be a current wave of interest in neuro diversity, to the extent that it is paralysing all other discussions. All the analysis and coping strategies are becoming quite convoluted.

Another comparison might be a dry alcoholic, suggesting to everyone that any reference to alcohol or to a pub or a baileys coffee is an indicator of there being an addiction issue. Every now and again, that will be true, but just because the dry alcoholic finds the connection everywhere, it doesn't mean their personal perspective is balanced, nuanced or fully educated on the topic. They may be projecting. They may be pontificating.

I feel you are purposefully misunderstanding me. If someone comes on here and says, “my child is doing X, Y and Z and I’m at a loss, any advice?” I don’t think there is a problem saying, “I’ve struggled with those same things and have been diagnosed with ND condition, have you considered that?”

That isn’t me diagnosing, it’s using my experience to have an opinion and make a suggestion which I thought was the whole point of MN.

This is a false narrative though. I am late diagnosed and it certainly has not helped me not to know or receive help growing up. School was hell and I was unable to finish uni. As a result a career I might enjoy was out of reach. Job after job ended in burned out failure. Not getting help early on didn’t help me toughen up and succeed at all. Am I good at masking? Sure. That ability helped me get into terrible relationships where I masked and pretzeled myself into oblivion. Only since finding out I am Autistic have I begun to gain self-acceptance, self-awareness, coping strategies, and so on. Early diagnosis is critical for many ND individuals to have a chance at succeeding in life.

Widening the scope of anything will always dilute the resources available. It's not just true for ND but anything in life. Of course you can always argue that more funding/resource should be made available but this realistically won't happen and in some cases the resource can't be easily expanded anyway irrespective of money.

For example, the idea of people needing additional 'support' normally always means that someone somewhere needs to somehow give this additional support. This can be difficult when there are lots of people demanding additional support and not enough people in a position to offer it as so many people feel already stretched to the limit. I am thinking most notably of family situations with high levels of ND or schools where there is limited SEN resource. Ultimately it is a difficult being the support so most people aren't queuing up to these jobs even if the funding exists.

Poster: X is being a cunt

MN: oh, neurodivergency!

That’s why

I think the problem with neurodiversity is that behaviour affects not just the individual displaying it, but those around them, be that within an intimate relationship or in a classroom setting, and when those behaviour traits are negative they can cause lasting damage.

A new kid started in DD class who clearly has some fairly significant ND and accompanying behavioural issues. Unfortunately his behaviour has had a negative and lasting impact on several of his classmates, impacting their education and mental health. But I have definitely notice a degree of dismissiveness from some with ND used as an excuse. Frankly my priority is my DD safety and education, his ND is not my problem.

I am yet to see a post like that where the poster hasn’t considered and/or ruled out neurodiversity.

Either way, I think posting “maybe you could try A to deal with X” is far more helpful than “maybe your child has something wrong with their brain because I do”, which is rude, invasive, overstepping and inappropriate!

You are a complex individual, as is the child, and you cannot extrapolate your diagnosis to them, someone you have never met, based on a few traits!

I do understand that but does that mean people who are ‘high functioning’ for want of a better term, shouldn’t seek or be given a diagnosis in case it might detract from the help given to someone somewhere who is struggling more?

A lot of the time the suggestions are outright offensive to neurodivergent people. It doesn't help anyone to conflate misbehaviour with neurodivergence.

I don't know - im in two minds, i have friends who see their children as XYZ - and when i say, oh when did you get the diagnoses are the school being helpful etc - they say they read something online and diagnosed that way. I also know of one child whose mum was convinced he had something and saw no less than FIVE dr's to confirm - all of them said he was normal and fine, she still says he has something to excuse his (frankly) mean and shitty behaviour - he will go right up to other kids and whack or hit them and his mum will say, oh hes diagnosed XYZ etc so he cant help himself - that child will get away with murder one day and his mum will say its because he has XYZ.

Maybe my way of seeing it is wrong but if someone might be depressed or might not, surely it’s better to say it and be wrong than not say it and it get worse.

I guess for me ND isn’t a better or worse thing, it is what it is but suggesting neurodiversity when other things are in the mix means the other things don’t get looked at. There’s huge overlap in ADHD/ASD presentations and developmental trauma - which needs a different approach. All too often the ND gets hooked on and the impact of trauma disregarded - because who wants to think their child is deeply traumatised.

I also think assessment has limited benefit for an adult who understands their own behaviour and can identify strategies to support. Assessment changes nothing about how someone functions day to day, they still need to find ways to function day to day and still need to find a degree of self acceptance. Might diagnosis help with that, maybe, but given lengthy waits I can’t help think it’s better to get on with doing what you know works than waiting for a diagnosis that doesn’t change things.

If someone came on asking about certain physical or other symptoms, people would definitely suggest potential causes.

POVs like yours are infuriating for people like me who were diagnosed too late and suffered for years hating ourselves and being called useless, lazy, etc because 'no labels, she just needs to get her act together' etc.

So what if it's not, then it's not, but if it might be, or the symptoms resonate and the poster is in distress, why not say.

I only sought diagnosis after reading a thread on here about adult female ADHD. My sister has autism, never formally diagnosed, and my mother has ADHD, which was diagnosed in her sixties - again, all because of unhelpful attitudes like yours. These are brilliant women who have had their potential and self esteem decimated due to others blaming and judging and not understanding. I would never risk someone going through life like that when I could say 'This is sounds like it could be a symptom of... have you considered..?'

That’s why somewhere in between probably would be best. An awareness of the ND condition, but also ways to help that person succeed in the world with their differences. Because, let’s face it, the world is not set up for people like us.

I stand by the fact that I believe schools are failing ND kids by not giving them the realities of what life will be like when they leave. They hold their hands through school and then chuck that kid out at 18 and expect them to be able to function in a world geared very much for NT people.

Again, just because you wanted a diagnosis, and found it a positive and helpful experience, doesn’t mean everyone else does.

There are plenty of resources available for you to research and look into it without strangers telling you there is something “wrong” with you!

So, I totally agree with you that your DD should be your priority but surely diagnosing ND early, in theory, should lessen/prevent these situations.

For example, I would often fidget and tic at school and because I felt weird and was often told off, I learnt to scribble on a blank bit of paper to help me focus. One teacher then began to berate me for this and screamed at me and told me I was being distruptive. On one occasion I was made to stand up in the middle of the classroom so I couldn’t touch my pencil and on other occasions I was kicked out of class. My schoolwork struggled as I became very anxious about attending that lesson and I honestly believed the teacher that I was being disruptive by scribbling. Surely allowing me to use my coping mechanism was less disruptive than me constantly getting out of my seat, kicking my chair legs and repeatedly clearing my throat, not to mention the teacher’s behaviour. ND wasn’t an excuse but it was an explanation. In my opinion, the way it was handled caused more of a problem than the condition itself.

My parents hadn’t

It’s not always misbehaviour though.

Hadn’t what, OP?

I think we disagree on this because you think a diagnosis is positive (and I’m glad it was for you!) and therefore helpful and I think a diagnosis that doesn’t come from a professional is rude, unnecessary and likely to feel like a criticism/personal attack on the recipient as neurodiversity is part of who a person is.

It isn't the potential of the ND trait that is the negative at all.

It is when people read a thread from someone saying that their relative is displaying arsehole behaviour, and a poster pops along and says 'Have you counsidered they might be autistic?'. It implies that being an arsehole = autism.

There are many other posts on threads in a similar vein - someone says their MIL is being very unreasonable (could she have dementia?), their SIL or colleague is being very unpleasant (perhaps it's the menopause), their dc has turned into Kevin the Teenager (is it PDA?).

In my experience which is of course different to others’, I feel a bit of a fraud reading books or looking at studies regarding ND coping strategies without a diagnosis. Also, I feel like the main thing it affects is my opinion of myself. The slow move from seeing it as something I can control and am choosing not to because of character failings, to it being a real and tangible difference in how my brain works, is helping me to not be so horrible to myself.

Thank you so much. You have worded this much better than I could but is exactly what I’m trying to get across.

They hadn’t considered or ruled out ND. Not every parent has.

I'm not against it as such. My own children are autistic but I just feel like recently there's an excuse for everything. It's ok for people to be rude or whatever because they're 'neurodiverse' or even worse, 'neurospicy'. At uni, people use it as an excuse for not doing well, when they simply didn't put the work in. So for me; it's excuse fatigue!

I agree with all of this.

There are schools where teachers are reporting that nearly half of the kids are either diagnosed ND or under assessment. That suggests that if the trend continues, it'll be more unusual to be NT than ND, and the labels should then in theory have to switch over (because it will be 'typical' to be neurodiverse).

I don't think the widened scope and therefore the massive increase in people seeking diagnosis and support helps those with the most severe symptoms and/or the highest level of impact on daily life. If the diagnosis rates are going to keep increasing then funding will surely have to be targeted.

(Yes, in an ideal world there'd be enough money for all but there isn't).

Agree with you on mental health, too. I was diagnosed with severe co-morbid MH conditions in my teens and have worked for decades whilst essentially hiding everything I was going through. I now know people who are so open about their mental health (which is great), but they don't work, and they claim that everyone who holds down a job either doesn't have any MH conditions or if they do, they're very mild. That really winds me up.

You’ve misunderstood me - you mentioned MN posts where people say “child does X, Y, Z” and I said I’m yet to see a post of that nature where the OP hasn’t considered if not ruled out neurodiversity.