to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

[UkiUki]

Inspired by another thread on here today but it’s an ongoing trend.

I’ve noticed that most, if not all of the time, when a poster suggests that a behaviour may be caused by ND, other posters jump on them and seem enraged that ‘everything is explained away with neurodiversity these days’.

There has been a lot of progress in understanding these conditions which has naturally contributed to an increase in people getting diagnosed. It is especially increasing in females as, per most medical issues, the parameters for diagnoses were created around male behaviour.

As someone currently in the latter part of the long and stressful diagnosis process, my motivation to suggest ND when I recognise certain traits in situations described is that my heart goes out to those who could flourish with a little extra understanding of how their brains work, especially children. I believe I would be a different person now if I’d had the support I needed growing up, instead of just believing I was lazy, clumsy and weird.

I feel a lot of irritation and sometimes outright anger from some posters, and the suggestion that people are using ND as an excuse somehow.

Aibu to not understand where this annoyance comes from?

A bit of both.

I agree but they also might be ND.

Excellent post. I also suffered crippling depression and used to get so angry at people saying they were depressed when really they were just having a shitty time and felt sad about it. If only that's all depression was

This isn’t a helpful as not everyone is diagnosable as ND. The same could be said about depression and anxiety but it wouldn’t be true.

YES!! I get equally annoyed with threads about people behaving badly invariably containing people saying ‘could they be depressed?’ There are times when I have been very depressed when I have been unreasonable as a result, but (a) it doesn’t mean I can’t recognise it and apologise afterwards and (b) it’s much more common that when I’m being a cow it’s just because I’ve got the hump or am having a bad day! (like anyone else!)

A lot of terms are thrown around with little thought these days, and it’s making them meaningless. Along with ND and MH, there’s narcissist, fascist and gaslighting. Language matters.

People don't want accountability nowadays. Obviously I'm talking about people who aren't formally diagnosed

Thank you for sharing your experience. I can empathise with the feeling of being an alien beamed down here and expected to just get all of the confusing stuff going on that everyone else just seems to understand.

I feel the same as you, not wanting other children to have to feel strange and not good enough when it’s not the case and they could thrive with some understanding.

Well, because it’s very different from just being someone who happens to be late. If I am focussed on something, time ceases to exist. Even if I’ve done something a thousand times, I can’t judge how long it’ll take me and once I’ve decided how long something will take then no matter how much evidence I receive to the contrary my brain won’t believe it.

What would you see as the difference between using it as an excuse and using it as a reason? This is the bit I’m stuck on.

I always see people complaining about people who are ND using it as an excuse or more likely a reason for certain behaviours and how that’s a problem.

We allow people to use physical disabilities as an excuse for things so why is an invisible disability so different in this sense?

Yes people with autism or ADHD can learn strategies to help themselves but actually a lot of the time there are barriers to this and it’s not often just CBA.

I don’t think people realise that these actually mean that people’s brains aren’t as they should be and how massive that actually is.

This is scaremongering. Unless you are a very close friend of someone, why would you (a non-professional with zero clue) attempt to diagnose them with a brain tumour on the back of headaches?

It is neither helpful, appropriate nor kind to tell someone their traits may be linked to neurodiversity. You can’t tell people there might be something “wrong” with their brain, and by extension themselves and their personality, unprovoked.

I have dyspraxia, and I have issues with people who want to view ND as some kind of superpower specialness and not for the disabilities they are.

I don't have bruises from a million door handles because I'm oh so clever and different. It's because my stupid brain can't move my stupid legs to the right position to not smash into things.

Yes, there are some differences in how I process things. But for the main part I would like to NOT be dyspraxic.

These type of threads are pointless tbh OP because you'll always have numerous posters making up threads where someone said they didn't like pasta and someone said maybe they're autistic. This just doesn't happen but it doesn't stop people spouting shit.

Then you'll get all the people saying that everyone is somewhere on the spectrum or that they know someone who blames everything on their diagnosis when really they're just doing perfectly normal things that everyone does (implying their diagnosis is nonsense).

Basically everything that you say upsets or annoys you in your original post -well someone will find a way to shoe horn that very thing into the thread. People who are not ND don't have a clue, and a lot of people who are ND only know what they are like and don't always realise others may be impacted very differently.

Every single one of us is somewhere on the spectrum.

Offensive and untrue.

MN is a bit schizophrenic on this issue. A DC causing trouble in school because of behavioral issues caused by autism = exclude them from everything that involves NT children being inconvenienced, deny there is any disability to be accommodated, and blame the parents. Adult struggling with executive function, being a crap spouse or just generally unpleasant to be around = he sounds just like my autistic DH/DW (who can't help it, bless).

FWIW when childless, I used to think a lot of so-called neurodivergence was actually poor diet, too much TV and lax parenting. Then I had a severely autistic child who is utterly impervious to discipline, rules, social norms, the opinions of others, consequences etc. I know better than that now, but children like my DS are absolutely fair game on here - and ableist views concerning neurodivergence are never moderated.

I don’t think I’d say it in person unless it was someone very close and they asked my opinion on it. And then I would just share my experience of it. But saying that I did suggest to a friend that they might be depressed because they were showing some worrying signs and I wanted them to get help which they did. Not sure if that’s the same or not in terms of the minefield.

It's not a problem for me since I'm pushing 50 and am comfortable in my skin. I do mention it to my son as he is at the sweet spot where he thinks it matters with school, EHCP meetings, lots of attention, but no friends. Medical professionals and teachers fall in to the paid for category, outside that there are people who get you and people who don't. You can't force it by whipping out a diagnosis.

When I see a thread where a poster is describing some terrible parenting and there is a badly behaved child now. It does seem very insulting to all the lovely behaved ND children that posters will jump in and suggest ND when a child misbehaves.

Maybe those posters mean well but many people out there do on a subconscious level equate bad behaviour with ND.

Maybe my way of seeing it is wrong but if someone might be depressed or might not, surely it’s better to say it and be wrong than not say it and it get worse. Like you’ve described, sometimes depression presents as being nasty rather than the stereotypical crying and not getting out of bed. What if you weren’t able to see it as depression but you knew something was different. If you came on here and posters jumped on those suggesting depression it might dissuade you from seeking help.

ND seems to be the first explanation some posters jump to without exploring anything else. For example, a mum posts about the challenging behaviour of her child. Straight away some people suggest ND. But further questioning tells us that the behaviour is relatively new, mum left a violent husband six months ago, has met a new man who has moved in, and they are trying to have a baby. Sometimes there are other fairly obvious reasons for a child's challenging behaviour.

But it’s not unprovoked. People come on here to ask advice. The human experience is based on extrapolating information from our lived experience and applying it to future scenarios.

Just because you feel positive/relieved/whatever in your diagnosis, doesn’t mean that will be the same for everyone.

You are, in effect, telling someone you think there is something “wrong” with them. That their brain, personality, and self isn’t “normal”. That could be deeply upsetting to hear.

You can’t dish out random diagnoses just because you are neurodiverse. It’s not an appropriate way to speak to people! I don’t understand why you’re failing to grasp this?

You aren’t a professional, you aren’t in a position to diagnose, you can’t diagnose anything based on a few traits/quirks/preferences anyway, so why not just keep your notions to yourself instead of projecting them onto other people?

I just wanted to understand it a bit better because I see it so often and thought I must be missing something.

This is a very interesting point that I hadn’t considered in such a concise way. Maybe some people do just associate bad behaviour with ND. I can imagine that must be very difficult for people with ND children.

As repeated throughout this thread, the advice sought is about dealing with behaviour or situations, and yet people want to diagnose the people in the story with whatever neuro condition they deem fit.

Maybe you could give a different perspective on handling a situation in light of your neurodiversity, but you can’t extrapolate a condition onto someone else just because of your experience.

It does seem very insulting to all the lovely behaved ND children that posters will jump in and suggest ND when a child misbehaves.

Why? Autistic traits include lack of impulse control, sensory overwhelm/meltdown, not understanding social rules like 'when to stop' before things get out of hand. Of course autism presents differently in everyone, but "bad" behaviour can be a key marker of autistic children, who are no less disabled or deserving than their beautifully behaved ND peers. What they are is less socially acceptable, because society wants to blame someone (mothers, usually) for what the child is unable to control.

Most of the children at my DC's specialist school for autistic/ADHD kids would be considered "naughty" by MN standards. The school works hard to manage those behaviours whilst recognising that often the child just cannot control their reactions in an age-appropriate way, and is not making a "choice" to misbehave.

I'd rather suggest ND to a struggling parent and be wrong, than increase that child's trauma by letting the parent continue with typical parenting methods (time out, consequences, etc) that will just never work on some ND kids.

I agree. And in another recent post, a parent is saying over and over again that she has no concerns re ND, her daughter doesn’t have any other traits bar one which is totally normal for the stage of life she is in. And yet posters are ignoring this and saying over and over again ‘it sounds like adhd!’ The post wasn’t even about whether the child was ND or not

it’s baffling why anyone would think this was appropriate