to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

[UkiUki]

Inspired by another thread on here today but it’s an ongoing trend.

I’ve noticed that most, if not all of the time, when a poster suggests that a behaviour may be caused by ND, other posters jump on them and seem enraged that ‘everything is explained away with neurodiversity these days’.

There has been a lot of progress in understanding these conditions which has naturally contributed to an increase in people getting diagnosed. It is especially increasing in females as, per most medical issues, the parameters for diagnoses were created around male behaviour.

As someone currently in the latter part of the long and stressful diagnosis process, my motivation to suggest ND when I recognise certain traits in situations described is that my heart goes out to those who could flourish with a little extra understanding of how their brains work, especially children. I believe I would be a different person now if I’d had the support I needed growing up, instead of just believing I was lazy, clumsy and weird.

I feel a lot of irritation and sometimes outright anger from some posters, and the suggestion that people are using ND as an excuse somehow.

Aibu to not understand where this annoyance comes from?

Yes, that sounds like a good strategy.

Yes it's really wearing. I hear you! And beautifully illustrates my earlier posts. Thankfully it is genuinely a minority of parents/ children and sometimes it's more about narcissism than ND. The trouble is it prevents open, meaningful discussion about improvements which actually harms the ND children and adults most affected!

You introduced restraint into the discussion and are the one saying you want to know how to manage ND children without it and that your government has felt the need to bring in laws to limit it. There are many,many stories of autistic children being subjected to restraint and poor treatment. People with autistim have a much higher likelihood of being subjected to it. That isn’t hyperbolic language, it’s reality.

Oh do give over. I couldn’t give a stuff if you find it wearing. I didn’t bring restraint into the discussion but since it’s here posters can post realities however wearing you find that.

And as for narcissism seriously what are you talking about?

You're twisting my words. I didn't advocate for restraint, I discussed what is covered under the broad term of seclusion - so keeping a child safe in a classroom for 5 minutes while help is fetched.
In any case, I'll bow out of the conversation now. Have a good Sunday everyone.

Restraint is used a lot for children and adults with disabilities. It usually goes by some other wording such as positive handling or a safe hold.

You'll find most special schools have staff trained in team teach or similar and nearly all have safe spaces (usually padded rooms to put a child that is in crisis.

The government have set targets to get people with autism removed from ATU's (units). They get held in these for years esentially because of how funding works. The LA dont want to pay for what the person needs to live in the community so they get hospitalised, which is daft because it usually costs more and is awful for the prrson and their family.

This was in the news a couple of weeks ago.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw0e3zjx2lo?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2m-pQ-7MbbuvcWF1-0RkhkuPccHSw6cjm_Y5i_v0arJnEmOeatMe1wfho_aem__nuWarAe8hQkxxpu-SSbzg

https://www.mencap.org.uk/press-release/over-half-billion-pounds-year-spent-locking-people-learning-disability-and-or

https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/news/missed-target-to-reduce-number-of-autistic-people

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/autism-learning-disabilities-hollins-inquiry-b2443821.html

https://news.sky.com/story/you-start-to-believe-youre-ill-fight-to-free-autistic-people-from-hospitals-as-govt-misses-crucial-target-13117692

They use team teach etc at my sons special school
I know they have restrained him on occasion they do try and divert the situation ,they take him swimming in the hydro pool and for walks on the track but sometimes it's necessary

@x2boys I know. I know it should only be used as a last resort. I was just showing that restraint isn't uncommon especially for people with more needs.

Team teach scares me, im glad face down holds have been banned, there was a list floating around of the people that have died from them. My son's school use it, thankfully like yours they try everything else first but I do know some children are taken to the safe spaces.

Yes I used to be a mental health nurse, so have had to restrain adults ,thankfully the prone postion has been outlawed

I work as a TA. In my school the reality for any ND child who has a history of hurting other children is that they will be shadowed closely 1:1 all day by middle aged women. Not all of these children have learning difficulties. It’s purely to stop them hurting anyone.

Does anyone think this is really ideal for a Y6 child who should be developing independence and soon moving on to a mainstream secondary school? It’s really not but it’s all we can do because we can’t have children being attacked physically in school. TAs get attacked frequently, by the way.

Me: The trouble is it prevents open, meaningful discussion about improvements which actually harms the ND children and adults most affected!

You: Oh do give over. I couldn’t give a stuff if you find it wearing.

Thanks for illustrating my point perfectly 👌 👍 Good job.

Maybe assume that most professionals are doing their best for ND children (and indeed adults) with pathetic budgets, low resources, huge waiting lists, stressed staff teams and a SUBSET of service users who demand the moon on a stick and push back every time they are asked to parent their children in a way that will teach them to function successfully in the world. Thank God they are a minority but they swallow up enormous time and energy with ridiculous demands and endless carping. That's where we see the narcissism.

I would much rather spend my time with everyone working together to help these children rather than fending off persistently unreasonable behaviour and demands from a few 🙄

And your role is again?

And if they are the minority why are you continuing to bang on about it?

Pushing to one side the fact that parents are the experts as regards their children and their ND. You know maybe you might want to listen to what they have to say sometime.

I don't 'bang on' about anything I participate in discussion. And as a ND parent of ND DC working with ND and NT children and adults I'll feel free to discuss anything I like, thanks.

And my point is: sometimes parents AREN'T the experts on what their ND child needs, which is why we have things like social services, mental health services, an education system and a health service. The idea that EVERY parent knows best what their own child needs is misguided at best and dangerous at worst. Some parents are so shattered and unsupported caring for their children that they no longer have the resources and energy to teach them the skills they need to function in the world. Throw in things like poverty, abusive ex partners, poor education, trauma and substance misuse and some parents NEED more support in place to help them be effective parents.

Exactly. If the help and accommodation that a child needs in the classroom, for instance, is going to have a detrimental effect on the learning or wellbeing of others, which takes precedence?

It is pointed out a lot that all ND people are very different. My autism and my needs are different to that of another autistic person. And these needs can vary massively.
In reality it is impossible to meet the needs of every single ND person. Schools are a fine example of this. They have limited money and resources and what is helpful for Tim might be totally useless for Oliver.
We will never meet the needs of everybody. It’s not feasible in any way. The staunch ‘the world needs to change to adapt to ND people’ are missing a rather key element to this that those needs vary to such an extent that it is impossible for this to happen. The more logical step is to allow adaptations that can be useful to everyone in society, but work with ND people to help them to try to adapt and function as best they can in the world they live in.

This 100% and the more unreasonable the demands by a minority the greater the pushback on everyone else. Sometimes I flinch when I hear these aggressive demands because I see the reaction it gets. People pull up the drawbridge and think GFY and then the next ND person needing an adjustment has to work harder to be heard. They now have to get past initial hostility where before there was curiosity and goodwill. I have come to genuinely dislike the 'ND movement' as it has some of the worst offenders.

What is your role?

Many many services are filled with staff truly ignorant about ND from the bottom to the top hence the huge amount of training being rolled out to the NHS etc. If I’d listened to the services treating my dd she’d be dead, the ignorance as regards ND was truly shocking. I was the expert as regards my child and I was proved to be right.

Thankfully autism is a protected disability and ND children and adults are entitled to have their needs met in order to have an education and to access services. Great you don’t need reasonable adjustments, others do.

I know many people who work in education that I am grateful for. I've known some that I wouldn't house a goldfish with. Not all are saints.

With the best will in the world while some professionals, usually those employed by the LA and NHS say they are doing everything to help, they hardly ever follow through when putting needs and provision in writing in a specified and quantified way. Ask any parent who has had to go to tribunal for section F of an ehcp. They don't do this because they don't want to jeopardise their career/ job or in some cases believe LA policy trumps the law.

Children who act out/ become violent/ go into crisis etc are not having all their needs met, whatever these needs are. Ultimately in school we are still talking about children. If a nd child is lashing out, why Is that? I'm sure in some circumstances it will be the child is a pita but in many circumstances it will be because they have needs which aren't being correctly dealt with. The professionals interacting with that child including those in school should be putting into writing what they are doing and what support they need or what assessments they need to help them.

Exactly this!!!

Perhaps you ARE an expert on your child but (whispers) not all parents are like you.

I'm not really sure why you don't seem to understand that. I'm a ND parent of ND DC but I still have the humility to reach out to other professionals for information and advice as required.

And I'm not telling you my professional role because a) it's quite outing, b) I'm faintly amused that you feel so entitled to know my personal information on an anonymous Internet forum and c) I could claim to be the Queen of Sheba as could you and anyone else posting here 😉

Ok so don’t don’t make sweeping statements about “professionals”.You don’t speak for all and I doubt you have a professional role at all because you certainly don’t sound very professional.

You refusing to say what your role is speaks volumes, it’s perfectly possible to say what your role is but you won’t because you don’t have one.

“not all parents are like you.“ and not all professionals have adequate knowledge of ND. The vast majority don’t have any at all and what they do have is stereotypical and incorrect.

I don't think anyone actually disagrees with this but all our services in this country are chronically underfunded and working beyond capacity. We all need to be joining forces to demand more resources and properly funded education and mental health services but people don't want to pay more taxes and we get what we pay for.

I literally can't think of any public sector organisation that has adequate resources to meet need.

The irony of your last paragraph after lecturing ME about making sweeping statements 🙄