to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

[UkiUki]

Inspired by another thread on here today but it’s an ongoing trend.

I’ve noticed that most, if not all of the time, when a poster suggests that a behaviour may be caused by ND, other posters jump on them and seem enraged that ‘everything is explained away with neurodiversity these days’.

There has been a lot of progress in understanding these conditions which has naturally contributed to an increase in people getting diagnosed. It is especially increasing in females as, per most medical issues, the parameters for diagnoses were created around male behaviour.

As someone currently in the latter part of the long and stressful diagnosis process, my motivation to suggest ND when I recognise certain traits in situations described is that my heart goes out to those who could flourish with a little extra understanding of how their brains work, especially children. I believe I would be a different person now if I’d had the support I needed growing up, instead of just believing I was lazy, clumsy and weird.

I feel a lot of irritation and sometimes outright anger from some posters, and the suggestion that people are using ND as an excuse somehow.

Aibu to not understand where this annoyance comes from?

@ridl14

Agree it's not a superpower! But I think people say that as a way to feel better about the disability. Some people are incredibly knowledgeable on certain subjects or savant level intelligent at maths or science so there is an argument it's a super power from that. But saying so ignores all the struggles and challenges that come along with it

@PocketSand
Yes my child has an ehcp and attends a special school. He attempted suicide at his special school.

But my point wasn't about one very specific example. I wasn't suggesting you personally rang your GP. It was an example of how knowing how autism presents could help access the right type of education or healthcare more easily.

You said you felt people weren't seeing your chikds struggles as legitimate or valid. I was simply the suggesting that more refined diagnosis woukd actually make people see them more legitimate and valid by being more useful. Instead of being dismissed as a mild apple being, being an orange and all that entails.

Yep I completely understand this and all power to them! I have a soft spot for (older) kids I've worked with who just say whatever comes into their heads or feel the need to be very precisely honest. But I agree, it does a disservice essentially erasing how it presents elsewhere on the spectrum and the real issues a lot of people face as a result.

It was an example of a way things could be divided into types which had no emotional baggage of severity or dismissing of needs.

The examples were clearly labelled as rough and not a suggestion of actual categories that woukd or should be used.

@x2boys l know you from the SEN boards long ago. I know how hard things are for you. I will always be grateful for the help and advice you gave. I'm glad you are still around and identifiable so I can thank you.

It all went to shit and I have no support so things are different now with adult SN with different needs.

But I still regard you as one of the people there when I most needed support.

While I do agree it is helpful to differentiate levels and care needs in autism, I would like to make the point that autism is more than just anxiety, even in its mildest form. There are real impairments in sensory and social cognition in even the old Asperger’s kind of autism. To try and portray it as anxiety is to misunderstand the nature of the disability and the support needs that are required. At the end of the day it is hard on autistic people and their carers if they don’t get whatever kind of support they need. It’s wrong all kinds of autism services have been targets for cuts.

That's very kind of you to say
I have a group of friends we all have children with a diagnosis of autism the children/ young adults are all very different but all have complex needs
I hope life gets a bit easier it can't be easy with no respite, I'm lucky in that respect it's taken years but I have decent package of respite including 2 over nights a month which are a God send 💐 land🍷 you for

@adulthoodisajoke

"youre self aware and im sure you apologise when youre late and now you know about time blindness are able to put measures in place to help yourself?
and harmony in relationships is great"

See this shit pisses me off. You do know that ADHD can't just be cured with a few strategies or timers? I know I am time blind, I put in place loads of strategies. Yet I'm still late. Being on time for something is not just a case of setting a few timers. There's a complex web of executive functions going on to enable someone to get ready, have everything they need, get out of the house and reach their destination on time. And it all starts days or weeks ahead, and most people are constantly juggling all the things they need to be on time for. Yet most people don't notice half (if any) of the things their brain is doing to allow them to be punctual. It's only when your brain can't do these things, that you can see it. It's like driving a car for most people. Once you learn it, you aren't thinking about all the multiple and different things your brain is doing to allow you to drive, it just does it. If you started struggling with one or more aspects, that's when you'd notice where your brain is failing you.

You can’t categorise autism so it was ridiculous post.

sorry for your misunderstanding

help yourself doesn't mean cure

I am also autistic and I must say I disagree with this. I don't think that autistic children get enough support in school, at all. You are right that the world doesn't bend for neurodivergent people. But it should. A lot of the time there is no inherent value to the way things are done, beyond that they're the way things have always been done. I don't think the accomodation needed in schools and workplaces are often even that big. Maybe if we hadn't been raised with the shame around needing to do things differently, we'd just be more confident in asking for the accomodations we need to function best without thinking of this as the world bending!

A ramp is an example of an adjustment that can make society a little more accessible for a wheelchair user. That was my point.

Just looked up Time Blindness. As an adult could you put in strategies to help yourself now you know you have it? Allow an extra 10 minutes, aim to be early, timers, alarms etc? Genuine question from a probable dyslexic who had to find ways round her problematic spelling.

If someone was consistently late I would give up meeting them.

Fair enough. Lots of people feel the umbrella term autism is adequate because it's too difficult to create sub-categories.

I'm used to feel that too as I felt it was all to complicated due to the spiky profiles. I felt was the best option

I'm now feeling more inclined to think something better could evolve that helps identify needs and support better.

Sorry, I will try and make my post clearer, as its not.

There are too many NT people that try to claim that they, or their children are ND.
There are also some unscrupulous "professionals" that sell labels. (I will probably get flamed for that).

And it is these people that others get angry at.
I have several friends that claim to have have "time blindness" yet they can get to other things on time. Yet not for friends.
The issue is that they have decided that this is what is wrong with them, they have no diagnosis.

Add to this there is a huge issue in having conditions that are so wide ranging that it could be said that everybody "is a little bit" etc.

Schools and teachers have a hard time with some of these conditions because you can have 2 or more pupils in the class with conflicting requirements, for instance one child must be allowed to be loud, another must have a quiet classroom, both must be sat at the front.
Some time ago I was told to fuck off on here for saying that.

I was also told that a child ASD couldn't be creative and good at art. This from someone on here from the SEND board.

I am off the firm opinion that schools and other organisations don't do enough for children that are ND, and I have seen that reduced by various governments, but their is only so much that they can do.

A bit schozophrenic?

Yeah, that is an unfortunate choice of language!

Do you mind if I ask what things you feel need to change? Not necessarily talking about in school, but more in the adult world. What accommodations do you need to function better?
Genuinely not being goady, but I’m starting to realise I might be an unusual autistic, given so many fellow autistics don’t agree with my thoughts. I’m interested in finding out why this is.

schools issue surely comes down to money/resources, they simply cannot provide 1 to 1

Unless you have a ND child it's hard to understand IME. I was the same, I didn't understand, until I had my own.

However there are also kids who aren't ND and their behaviour is due to parental neglect, I've seen this too.

Only the experts can give a diagnosis and there are parents desperate to get one for a whole number of reasons (to shift responsibility, not to be to blame, financial) but don't get it because they simply aren't!

So when you do have a genuine ND child and educators flag it up at school and you already know, you do everything you can to help them and become actively involved with support agencies, not expect them to do it. X

Happy to share, although I can only speak from my own perspective as what would help other autistic people might be quite different.

I'm also slightly unusual in that I am also 'gifted' and have ADHD and dyslexia so I'm not great at separating all of those things.

Some accomodations are specific and some are more general or attitudinal.

Broadly I'd say that there are many ways organisations can made adjustments that would remove barriers related to some of the most frequent features of autism - so communication differences, processing differences, sensory differences etc.

Flexible working is one that really helps me and honestly, since I've been able to do that my performance has been extremely high - whereas when I was office based I struggled with attendance. Working from home more and with more flexible hours means I can do my work without having to contend with the sensory and social communication challenges that I'd usually have to navigate - things that were actually nothing to do with my job.

Another one is accomodation around processing. My processing speed is slow despite very high IQ. I am historically awful in tests and interviews - my results never reflect my actual capabilities. I once had an interview where I was given the questions a bit in advance. I then totally nailed that interview. I think if employers recognised the limits of interviews, they'd end up with a lot more good people in posts. Similar with small accomodations about giving people written notes after meetings etc.

Another is a bit more general - I wish both schools and jobs were less keen on people being an all rounder. I think for autistic people, and probably lots of other people, working in a strengths - based way is much better. So key skills for job roles shouldn't ask for certain skills unless they are actually important for carrying out the job. I'd say the same for schools, I would have done a lot better if I'd been able to build on my strengths instead of needing to try and even out - by nature my cognitive profile is not even at all!

In general I think that small accomodations such as these could make school and work more inclusive, and allow more autistic people to fulfil their potential rather than having to meet rather arbitrary expectations which often dampen strengths and do nothing for our self esteem.

I was a terrible bartender. For some time I thought I was genuinely unemployable. But I found my niche and I'm an exceptional policy designer. To me the latter is easy and the former extremely difficult. But society often doesn't see it that way so lots of people end up stuck feeling bad about themselves.

Yes or tell them 30 minutes before the actual time.

In order to meet the needs of such a variety of students, teachers need far smaller classes and much more in class help. So funding, really.

Thank you for sharing that. I do agree with many of your points so perhaps I’m not so different.
I am self employed because I came to the realisation that I just don’t do well with being managed. Bar work is one thing I knew I would never be able to do. I can’t filter out noise in environments like pubs because all I hear is random peoples conversations and my brain tries to follow them, aswell as follow the one with the person I’m talking to… in the end I just go into overload and zone out… 🤣

I do agree with flexibility being useful, but I suppose I’ve always felt it is useful for most people, whether they are ND or not.
In fact, I see a lot of the things you have mentioned that actually could be of benefit to everyone.

I’ve always been a very black and white thinker. Perhaps a trait of my autism or just a trait of me, I don’t know. As a result I sort of accept things I’m not good at and think very little of them after I’ve made that judgement call. I’m not sure if that goes some way to explaining why I’ve never considered that changes in society would particularly help me, because I simply box that part off in my mind and move on.
I’m also not my best in interviews. I am a writer more than a speaker. I can articulate myself far better with the written word than I can verbally, but it’s genuinely never entered my head that they should offer interview questions in written form to help people like me. I suppose I just think ‘well that’s not the way they do it’ and I either work at improving my interview skills, or I accept that I’ll never come across as well in an interview as I would like.
Human brains are complex, aren’t they! 😂

I do really appreciate you sharing your thoughts @AmethystMist