to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

[UkiUki]

Inspired by another thread on here today but it’s an ongoing trend.

I’ve noticed that most, if not all of the time, when a poster suggests that a behaviour may be caused by ND, other posters jump on them and seem enraged that ‘everything is explained away with neurodiversity these days’.

There has been a lot of progress in understanding these conditions which has naturally contributed to an increase in people getting diagnosed. It is especially increasing in females as, per most medical issues, the parameters for diagnoses were created around male behaviour.

As someone currently in the latter part of the long and stressful diagnosis process, my motivation to suggest ND when I recognise certain traits in situations described is that my heart goes out to those who could flourish with a little extra understanding of how their brains work, especially children. I believe I would be a different person now if I’d had the support I needed growing up, instead of just believing I was lazy, clumsy and weird.

I feel a lot of irritation and sometimes outright anger from some posters, and the suggestion that people are using ND as an excuse somehow.

Aibu to not understand where this annoyance comes from?

1 in 100 of all children. With over 10s it is 3 in 100. It takes time to get a diagnosis.

I think the apples and oranges thing is true.

At the moment the diagnosis feels a bit like people are being diagnosed as tree fruit (the neurotypicals are nuts, obviously)

But the reality is apples, oranges and plums need different things to thrive and survive and they look quite different.

I'm ok with an umbrella diagnosis, but I do think there must be a way to make it more helpful to know what support to put in place what the potential potential outcomes are.

@Frowningprovidence I totally agree. I mean you get diagnosed with cancer, but they state the type. And most people know that although there are similarities, there can also be vast differences between different types of cancer.

And that's alright with you? Disabled people staying home out of sight? That's a bit 1950s isn't it?

What about the rest of the world making some allowances for people who have different needs?

Thankfully, society these days is much better than it was and it's possible to get adjustments - such as ramps for wheelchair users and systems to help autistic people avoid standing in queues, for example.

My sons anxiety is is not temporary or
a result from life circumstances. It has been severely life effecting for over 15 years and is part of is autism presentation. It's why he can't work or live independently and needs full time care. It is a need. I don't want to deny others needs. I just want my son's needs to be accepted as legitimate.

Fuck I can tell you are not a wheelchair user and have zero understanding of just how hard it is to get out and about as a wheelchair user.
Most people you see using scooters can walk, they struggle with fatigue. If you can not walk, lots of places are not accessible.

I think it mirrors the trans debate in a lot of ways - numbers have gone up in recent years, so it makes people suspect that:
a) there might be a social contagion element to it
b) parents could be "diagnosis shopping"
Not saying any of this is true for the majority of cases, but I think these are the suspicions that people have.

@PocketSand I know we've locked horns but I didn't mean that your sons needs weren't legitimate or invalid. I was trying to convey the difference in needs and presentation.

By severe autism or profound autism I'm referring to how autism was previously defined or those people who have severe needs in all the ways that autism impacts (I'm aware autism is sometimes described in fluctuating needs depending on person, day, situation, need etc/ not straight line but spider diagram of autism). Ds would just be severe in all of these all the time.

I'd like to see more language and more descriptors used around autism. I feel as though much of the language is censored so you can be left looking for words that don't offend people and then the message is lost.

Absolutely - it's such a broad spectrum. I'm a teacher and have helped try and identify and gather evidence for kids with suspected autism and/or ADHD as well as other needs, I do believe teachers understanding the way they work best can really help them in school.

However, I also know adults who have basically diagnosed themselves with autism and/or ADHD and tried to use it to escape any kind of accountability from society. I don't want to go into precise details but literally two adults describing themselves as having both and trying to get diagnoses (literally researching the "right things to say" to try and get a diagnosis) while they had active criminal proceedings against them and thinking charges would be dropped as a result, that the government owed them benefits and housing etc. Really adopting it as a personality trait as well, talking about how it's a "superpower" and they're more creative and interesting than NT people as a result. Also using it to justify behaviour that is plain rude - talking over people, monologuing at length (literal hours) as well as serious eg aggression.

One was extremely performative about it for example seemingly 'blurting out' a comment that was blunt, verging on rude, and then clapping a hand over their mouth going "sorry - autistic!" I just thought come on... I've worked with enough kids and known enough people that were autistic to think the lack of filter isn't something that takes a few seconds to kick in, I've always seen it as just kids/people saying what they thought or not quite getting social cues, which I've never had an issue with.

So anyway those are quite extreme cases but they were people quite close to me so it had a big impact and really rubbed me the wrong way with using it to avoid accountability. I would also believe they could plausibly have autism and/or ADHD but it was the way they'd jumped on it to feel owed something and simultaneously opt out of any responsibility.

I actually know another close person who has been diagnosed autistic and thinks they have ADHD as well - again, I can see some traits of it - but they've got obsessed with trying to get a diagnosis to the point it was basically coming up repeatedly in every conversation, putting all different quirks and traits down to it, trying to diagnose me as well (we're related).

I said if I do have it I honestly don't care tbh because I have systems in place to deal with being forgetful and struggling with time management and focus, to the point where after a childhood of being the scatty, disorganised kid, I've been known at every job as very organised and on the ball. Just with a messy desk I can't seem to keep under control 😂 I have nothing against diagnoses but I really think people need to use them as a means to an end to actually address their issues and behaviours rather than as a way to opt out of accountability.

@Perzival

I really really agree with all you are saying. My diagnosis is autism and when I got it I was told it would have been Asperger's a few years ago. I absolutely have needs NT people do not but my needs are nothing like my son who has much higher needs and would have always been autistic before we did away with Asperger's, but he can speak and while his communication is non typical he can communicate to a reasonable extent- I don't know if he will be able to live independently or not at this stage. Then I have a nephew who is completely non verbal and seems to have no idea what is going on around him, not looking like toilet training will happen anytime soon and it's long overdue. Basically he's severely and profoundly limited. Maybe he will start speaking and being aware of dangers etc but it's not looking likely. All 3 of these examples have the same diagnosis and that's madness. My needs are NOTHING compared to my nephew but still significant when compared to NT. We do really need a way to differentiate because people with needs like my nephew are being obscured by the 'higher functioning' autistics who are able to be vocal and seen

But would more accurate diagnosis help with that? Imagine it was more like 'types' rather than severity.

I'm not suggesting these, but as a very rough example:

Autism - type A (non verbal incontinent, no awareness of self or others)
Autism type b - highly anxious
Autism type c - adhd style

There's no hierarchy that B is better worse or more severe or needs less support or funding the C..

It would just mean that if you rang the gp and said your son was struggling it came up type b high suicide risk and they take it very seriously as that presentation of autusm carries a high risk.

On this post I’ve seen more people who are NT being rude and dismissive of conditions that are often totally disabling.

@Frowningprovidence
That sound like sort of a good idea to me.

Within the autistic community you already have people saying "female presentation" or PDA or AuDHD, autistic with global developmental delay.

But I'm in an online community where there are non verbal autistic people who are more clued up on what's happening in the word and their written words give absolutely no indication they are non verbal.

@Frowningprovidence rang the GP? Why? What would they do? Am I missing something?

@TheyDidntBurnWitchesTheyBurntWomen you do realise that nonverbal people can type don't you?

Sorry, maybe thst wasn't clear.

I have had to ring the gp when my son was struggling mentally. Luckily for me, the gp was aware of the link between suicide and Autism and escalated it very quickly and the crisis team rang and meds were given.

It's just an example how having more refined diagnosis could help support be quicker, more relevant or whatever.

Absolutely! Also annoys me to see autism described as a 'superpower' when I think it can a real struggle for many people, even those that are more capable of living independently.

I agree with this idea. I don’t feel that my presentation is anywhere the same as my friend’s daughter who will never be able to live independently and is partially non-verbal. In fact it is so dissimilar that it doesn’t sit comfortably that on paper, without any additional information, the diagnosis would look the same. In fact, it’s a disservice to both of us. If I had received the support she requires it would have actually been extremely limiting to me and if she received the support that I feel would help me, she literally wouldn’t be able to function.

Some 'nonverbal' people can type - they're non-speaking (mute) not actually non-verbal (without words). People with global delay, other severe intellectual impairment or some kinds of brain damage may have extremely limited ability to use words in any medium.

I have noticed many people use the term “nonverbal” to describe people who have severe global communication difficulties to the point they wouldn’t even know how to switch an electronic device on, let alone type on it and communicate.

@Frowningprovidence maybe the school were not providing adequate support - DD if you contact SENCO before GP? Did your child have EHCP?

That’s ridiculous and not done for a very good reason. Many can be all 3 or 2, some of those in 1 will be in that category due to learning difficulties. My dc are in both 2and 3 but neither of those things are what causes the huge struggles and need for services.

Some maybe able, to my son however is unable to speak at all has very limited understanding of the world around him, he can just about trace some of the letters in his name and recognise a few numbers, he certainly can't type.

I do not agree with that particular rating system. But I see time and time again children and adults with very profound autism dismissed by the public saying it is really learning difficulties.
Sometimes it is. But we also know from autistic people who were non verbal and at some later point start communicating, that you can have profound non verbal autism and no learning disability. Sometimes it is simply autism and that is what it looks like.
I see profound autism questioned and doubted more than any other form of autism.

I see verbal people with autism dismissed as mild and not worthy of a diagnosis far far more. It’s frankly appalling.