Christmas present for racist relative or not?

[Merryoldgoat]

I’m in a bit of a quandary.

We have a WhatsApp group with DH’s wider family. Most are lovely - we’ve been together 20 years so I’m not a newbie.

I am mixed black/white but look European (people often think I’m Greek or Spanish) but DH’s family are all aware of my heritage.

A while back one of DH’s relatives made a racist post in the group. I challenged her, we had a fairly spicy exchange and I told her how much less of her I thought and left the group.

Several family members messaged me in support, and she herself messaged me to apologise.

I’m not looking to cause rifts - I can look after myself and will challenge any unpleasantness as required - so accepted her apology and moved past it. She’s shown her true colours and now I am wary but I don’t have to see her so can avoid conflict. I was added back to the group and I have not posted there since but all seems fine.

The dilemma: she gives my two boys money in their savings every month - it’s totalled around £10,000 over the years. I always buy a Christmas gift for her from the boys but I don’t want to - I feel quite hurt that her true opinion about me and people like me has been revealed.

DH and I wanted to return all the money (it’s untouched) but DH’s dad asked us not to - he said it would create a massive rift.

I feel like a hypocrite keeping her money and continuing to receive it but it’s DH’s family and I’ve ceded the decision to him.

TLDR: do I have to buy the racist a gift from my kids given I take her money.

YABU - buy her a present
YANBU - don’t buy her a present

Making racist comments about swarms and our country (meaning white people not all the people), is A BIG THING. It IS racist. If OP had said Uncle Basic had said something sexist to her would she have to prove it was sexist or would you accept her word. This ISN’T a little thing. This is something someone took time to type and send. If you truly can’t see the issue I would suggest you try and educate yourself

@saraclara

I’m not especially wound up. I’m disappointed in the minimisation of racism but the various opinions include (but are not limited to):

You are a hypocrite - give the money back

DON’T give it back - it’s not yours to give

Are you sure she’s racist

Buy her a snarky gift

Don’t buy her a gift

And various combinations of the same. What it has helped with is that it’s clearly not straightforward, it seems reasonable to find it tricky to make a decision and therefore I don’t feel bad that I’m still conflicted.

I do find it interesting that people think an apology erases hurt or would minimise apprehension about a person’s character.

If someone posted a family member called them fat/ugly/stupid etc during an argument (commonplace if you read threads on MN) but then apologised no one would be advocating to just ‘get over it’ even if an apology was accepted.

Honestly, because you told her what you thought of her comments, she apologised and you accepted, I’d just continue to let your DC’s pick her a stupid little gift and let her keep putting money into their savings whilst keeping your distance.

They’ll likely do better things with the money when they are grown than she ever will.

So even when the person has profusely apologised - there is no forgiveness and the punishment is eternal despite over 10k worth of goodwill.

Are apologies now pointless?

If this is the case is there anything that could actually end this?

If you accepted the apology - that’s it you need to move on as if it didn’t happen and truly accept it. Buy a gift or whatever you would usually do and get on with life.

or, don’t accept it, never speak to them again, get on with life

not some weird half way house.

This or something similar is a great idea. I don't think it is a sarcastic present I think it could genuinely be an eye opener for her.

Nothing erases hurt. I agree with you there. However in my experience it lessens over time.

An in law once called me a half breed as a ‘joke.’
I asked them what part of the joke was funny?

They apologised and I accepted. Since it was family I chose to ‘be okay’ with them but that didn’t mean I thought what they said was okay. It meant that I didn’t want to be bothered by their stupidity.

OP the option to never speak to them again is still there since you consider some of the other suggestions here to be minimising racism.

Thing is, she apologised and you accepted, everyone deserves a chance, she may well be thinking about what she said and realise it was offensive, just move on and if it happens again, well then you can close shop on her..

Thank you @Whoarethoseguys I did not mean to undermine OP by being sarcastic, but understand it is probably not really an option. I think there is room for everyone to really think about these issues or race, racism and our own beliefs. And not just become defensive . an apology is good, but that’s just a first step but a real understanding of why she caused offence would be even better and lead to some change.

^this

Move on from this. Hopefully the incident was a learning step for her. And she apologised.

Was the racist remark directed at you or was it more about general society (this is wrong to but different to her aimed racist comments at you specifically). If she said the racist remark about you specifically, no amount of apology would be enough to buy a gift whereas if she was making more general comments that perhaps (I'm being generous here) due to her generation she didn't realise were offensive, has made an adequate apology and no repeat offence, I would buy a gift - nearly every short be given a second chance as long as it not too vindictive the first time

@Merryoldgoat

Yes i would advocate forgiveness if it was other matters, people do deserve to be forgiven if they truly are sorry and understand why you were upset, i actually think (not as a gift) recommending reading on race matters may be a good way forward so she can takes a positive step to realising why you were so upset.

I'm really not excusing her comments but the reasons behind riots last year were complex and not simply a race issue, though it's definitely a major contributing factor. I work with older people and I'm pulling them up for racism and inappropriate comments regularly, they realise how it hurts people (I'm not of colour but I'm letting them get away with it!)

Please explain this one, Ellie?

I think that often it can be helpful to try and think about the deeper issues behind certain comments, rather than fixate on the words used to convey them.
We don't generally have the capacity to express ourselves so that the meaning behind our words is conveyed exactly as we intended it. Even more so with a WhatsApp message. That's why I believe in conversation and that the OP shouldn't be so hasty to cut out relative. It depends on what the real feelings behind the comments were.

When people talk about immigration, they may use phrases such as "boats" "not recognising their own country" "can't even understand people" etc etc, but in my opinion in many cases they are only using these words to convey a sense of unease.

Some people may have "learnt" that this is not viewed as a socially acceptable way of communicating this sentiment, but others may use it as a shortcut. It doesn't mean that the thought goes away.

They are sometimes expressing a negative emotion of a feeling of change in society, and what they possibly could have said is

" I don't like change and would rather things stayed as they have always been in terms of the type of interaction I have or could be required to have in my everyday life because I'm not very comfortable out of my social comfort zone ."
Or possibly,
"I am worried that in some way the opportunities that I thought might have been available to me possibly now won't be, and I might have to find a different path and I maybe I won't be able to".

Obviously these feelings don't negate the reality of the situation, but I still feel they need to be said. This doesn't mean that the world will come to a standstill or attempt to turn back the clock, just that it's important to be able to make these feelings heard in some form.

Coming from an immigrant family and being at ease generally in diverse social situations I wouldn't ever express this sentiment in this way, but I do fear technological change. So for me the aspect of change and technological advances are frightening. I do wish that things would stop so I can keep up, but obviously that's not going to happen.
However no -one is going to accuse me of being a horrible person if I express the view that I don't like the way things are nowadays. They will probably just think I'm a bit shit at tech and prefer living in the past.