Christmas present for racist relative or not?

[Merryoldgoat]

I’m in a bit of a quandary.

We have a WhatsApp group with DH’s wider family. Most are lovely - we’ve been together 20 years so I’m not a newbie.

I am mixed black/white but look European (people often think I’m Greek or Spanish) but DH’s family are all aware of my heritage.

A while back one of DH’s relatives made a racist post in the group. I challenged her, we had a fairly spicy exchange and I told her how much less of her I thought and left the group.

Several family members messaged me in support, and she herself messaged me to apologise.

I’m not looking to cause rifts - I can look after myself and will challenge any unpleasantness as required - so accepted her apology and moved past it. She’s shown her true colours and now I am wary but I don’t have to see her so can avoid conflict. I was added back to the group and I have not posted there since but all seems fine.

The dilemma: she gives my two boys money in their savings every month - it’s totalled around £10,000 over the years. I always buy a Christmas gift for her from the boys but I don’t want to - I feel quite hurt that her true opinion about me and people like me has been revealed.

DH and I wanted to return all the money (it’s untouched) but DH’s dad asked us not to - he said it would create a massive rift.

I feel like a hypocrite keeping her money and continuing to receive it but it’s DH’s family and I’ve ceded the decision to him.

TLDR: do I have to buy the racist a gift from my kids given I take her money.

YABU - buy her a present
YANBU - don’t buy her a present

Given that you accepted her apology I'm assuming she had some sort of explanation, not of the "obviously not YOU, you look nearly white! I meant THEM" variety but of the properly contrite variety?

You can't really cheerily accept her apology and accept her money but withdraw yourself and your children from her. DH can buy her gifts, as dutiful nephew.

I think often we're expected to forgive and we say we forgive but we don't actually forgive. And part of me really thinks thats OK too.
I doubt this will be the only time you'l have to deal with this with her but at least for now theres peace.

I think you've done the right thing by calling her out in forum she deserved. She gave an appropriate (from what you've said) apology and you've been very gracious in accepting the apology.

I think I would be inclined to see the matter as dealt with and I would try to move on and continue as you normally would but if she ever crossed the same line again then there would be no coming back from that for me.

It's not your responsibility to educate her or put yourself in any situation which could be detrimental to you, but I do believe that people like that need to be called out and not to be left to exist in an echo chamber where they can become more and more extreme and misinformed.

I'd get your dh to take your kids shopping and get them to pick something for her and I'd accept her present in good faith. If she repeats her racist behaviour then I'd just cut all contact with her and have nothing to do with her. I wouldn't do your sons out of money she's given them to date though - to me it's their money to do with what they please as they get older.

That money is for the children.

OP, I have been in a similar situation with my in laws and I am now at the point where I smile and nod at them and remain civil but that’s as much as they will get from me. I leave everything in law related when it comes to big events and occasions to my DH. My in laws have lost my respect, trust and overall care for their wellbeing and I feel relieved I don’t have to make myself like them anymore. It is rare that a person that holds that kind of opinion ever changes so it’s like that saying so beloved on MN - once a person shows who they are, believe them. We can’t quite shut that door on them, but we don’t have to let them in and sully our lives.

We’ve found the relative! 😄

Why? The money is for the children. As a PP said, unpleasant people should be relieved from their money!

Why should the children suffer the double blow of having a racist aunt AND losing their money?

Why does this thinking not surprise anyone on here

I don’t understand your comment.

I don’t think I could make peace with accepting the dirty money, even for the sake of avoiding a family rift. So maybe a card saying “Dear Grandma, for Christmas we have decided to give the money you’ve sent us over the years to Stop Hate U.K. Thank you and Merry Christmas!”

So you're still accepting money from her? That would suggest you have accepted her apology, so yes buy a present (well your dh anyway).

Or - stop accepting the money.

It's hard when someone has shown you who they really are to move past it.

It kind of depends on the nature of the apology really. Occasionally someone actually learns something. I certainly have learned a lot more about rascism and the experience of people experiencing racism over the years. Not that I have ever said anything overtly rascist, but I sure as hell have had my eyes more opened today than say 20 years ago. For example I used to believe that xenophobia that I experienced as a white person of a certain origin was similar to rascism. I realise now it's not at all the same.

So it's possible for people to learn. If you think this relative has capacity to learn. Is truly sorry and is prepared to educate themselves then I'd get DH to buy the present from the boys. If you think she's just apologised to keep the peace then I think that's an entirely different situation and it means she's still thinking all those things and I'd struggle to engage.

People can have conflicting views. And their views can change over time.

From what you’ve said, her remarks sound pretty similar to (perhaps even milder than) those by Suella Braverman (herself a brown woman, presumably in favour of her own parents’ migration to the UK.)

I don’t think it’s ever possible to say that one remark, at one moment in their life, can show us who someone “really is.” She has to been very generous to your non-white children….

Labelling someone as inherently racist seems both wrong and unproductive. If we don’t engage with people who have different concerns from us, or express themselves using language we don’t like, how do we ever hope to effect change in the world?

More prosaically, leave it to your husband to sort the present.

I agree. I think a lot of people on the thread don’t really understand the impacts of being on the receiving end of racism. It’s complete dehumanising, even if it’s a “lighthearted joke” in a family group chat. It’s not easy to just move on once you’ve realised someone is racist.

Yes. But it’s massively hypocritical to keep accepting the money. Massively.

Having been part of my in law’s family for 25 plus years of which many were spent trying to ‘effect change’ I can honestly say it was a complete waste of time because they refused to stop staying racist things. I don’t feel in my case it’s wrong to label them as inherently racist. In fact doing so has been most productive as it has led to me having much better peace of mind now that I don’t have to pretend to care about them!

Make your mind up - either you have accepted her apology or not!
OP, holding onto a grudge after potentially getting your DH family member to apologise (fulsomely and astonishingly), and publicly accepting the apology, is quite hypocritical.
Either she was genuinely sorry, or not.
If you think she wasn’t, admit you haven’t accepted the apology.
If you think she was, and you really accepted the apology, move on and put it behind you, but don’t say one thing and do the opposite…

I see this kind of finger-wagging "be the bigger person" stuff directed at POC all the time (funnily enough no one ever tells the racists anything like this).

My idea of effecting change isn't actually focused on the perpetrators of racism at this kind of low level. I'm focused on protecting and uplifting the victims of racism. On enabling POC to live as unhindered by racism as possible (which, granted, is not much in 2024 Britain). This means I'll direct my energy into nurturing a strong anti-racist community, speaking out against racism and doing what I can to effect change at a structural level such as company policies. My focus is on making the material conditions for POC better.

I'm not going to direct my physical or emotional energy into trying to change racist people's minds. It's a waste of time and it's exhausting. After 40 years in the UK I'm very familiar with racists and if they're not open to getting it, they won't get it. I don't, in all honesty, give a shit about them. I cut them out of my life and move on to more important things.

(This is pretty much the thinking outlined in Reni Eddo-Lodge's Why I'm No Longer Talking To White People About Race, so I highly recommend you read that.)

Oh don't be dramatic. You can accept an apology for the sake of being civil and keeping the peace but you don't need to forget what that person did. It's actually incredibly important for POC not to forgot racist incidents - it's a form of self-protection, a reminder that we should still be wary around certain people.

If a man made a rape joke and apologised, I think many posters here might accept that to smooth things over but they would also be a bit more mindful not to be alone with that man again.

I also think @Merryoldgoat doesn't need to do a single thing in this scenario. If the racist relative wants to keep the money rolling in, that's on her. It doesn't need to be reciprocated.

What about a donation in her name or some form of sponsorship of an orphan/children in need? Basically anything charitable that you won't feel is wasted on her. And I think it could subtly get across the message that she might wanna think about her ethics a bit, too...

And you were happy enough to accept her money over the years.

I agree with the general sentiment of this post op.

Your relative has put a foot wrong. You rightly pulled her up on it. She then took the only reasonable step available to her at that point, namely to apologise, which you accepted. She couldn’t actually unsay it - even if she really regretted it. It would seem highly unlikely she doesn’t think well of you as an individual given her fondness for your Dc and her ( for her!) unprecedented gesture of apologising. Perhaps this is a juncture at which she has learned something sbout her views. My views evolve all the time.

So she’s been pulled up and she’s accepted she was wrong. At the moment you’ve behaved with dignity. If the story ever comes out ( as these things tend to do in families) your Dc will be proud of how you handled it. Moral high ground gets a battering on here, but you are currently occupying it, and over the years I’ve learned that, despite all the “is it windy up there?” jibes, it’s the preferable place to be. You didn’t just let it go u addressed: you have spoken out - and you obviously managed to do do in such a way that she felt the need to apologise. Don’t now drag it out and turn what is currently a clear cut situation into a mess.

I’m sorry in this instance you can’t walk away as I understand that’s the easier to do.

I get you OP, you've accepted her apology and she most likely meant it but it leaves a mark. It's not the same as a tipsy row about Trivial Pursuit.

The money is a pain, doesn't sound like you need it, you sure as anything don't want it but don't want to cause a rift. Sit on this and decide what to do.

Did your husband support you as much as you would have liked on this? Feels like he should be writing to MN now , not you.

I would personally go for one of the gifts suggested. She may appreciate it if she's slipped into lazy , offensive views that aren't in step with the times or even her surroundings. I would see accepting her apology in a heartfelt fashion, as opposed to a keeping the peace fashion (both valid) as more of a work in progress. Maybe the thematic gIfts can be a part of that. The family part of it was genuine, the personal bit will take longer.

So even when the person has profusely apologised - there is no forgiveness and the punishment is eternal despite over 10k worth of goodwill.

If this is the case is there anything that could actually end this?