To think that if a man has had bottom surgery they should be put in a woman’s prison?

[Bex5490]

Genuinely interested in this and not trying to goad just want to understand.

When people talk of the threat of a man in women’s spaces, I assume the danger is because of their penis.

So if that’s gone then should they be categorised as a woman?

I’m kind of of the opinion that if you’re willing to put that much effort in (as in penis removal) regardless of your chromosomes, I’m happy for you to be called a woman…is this wrong?

This. And the notion surgical removal of their penis makes a man any kind of a woman, and should therefore be treated 'like a woman', is nuts.

Yes, I can imagine that. Easily. But besides, who gives a fuck? That's not our problem as women. People that are very mentally ill often mutilate themselves. It does not mean they should be housed with the most vulnerable group. Maybe there should be separate segregated housing in male prisons. But they will never, ever, EVER belong in female prisons. Ever. Females should not have to pay the price for mentally ill males. They made their choices. The most vulnerable sex class did not.

You can still sexually assault without a penis, and a man without a penis isn't a woman so no.

Sarah Jane Baker is a violent male who has spent a lot of time inside (kidnap, torture, attempted murder) and - if Wikipedia is correct - cut their own testicles off. S J B identifies as a transwoman and has since been documented inciting violence against women at various demonstrations.

You first OP! Spend some time locked up 1 on 1 with someone like Sarah Jane Baker before giving away the rights of society's most disenfranchised eh?

I know you've been conditioned to care about males safety, but us feminists really don't give a flying fuck! Their 'safety' is NOT...OUR....CONCERN. They made their bed....

Wearing a dodgy wig and calling yourself Barbara it seems. But those men who REALLY want to "live as women" apparently cut their dicks off.

So you have no problem calling a male with penis and testicles a woman? I think you need to consider just how programmed you are to prioritise the feelings of males. Males are the dangerous predator oppressor sex class. Slapping a label of 'trans' on a male does not 're-badge' them as safe.

Chopping your penis off doesn’t make you a woman. Being a woman is a lot more than what’s between your legs.

A man without a penis is no more at risk than a man with a penis. Because they are still males with male strength. If they were going to be raped by another male, they would be, even with a penis.

We have had activists come on to MN threads who have stated (and I believe presented to Parliament) that these special male prisoners need to have access to female prisoners to learn to be women. And that they should receive special privileges of make up and other additions so that they can 'be themselves'.

No male person, even with their penis and/or testicles removed should be in any contact with any female prisoner. Just knowing that they, a female prisoner, is in a situation where they cannot leave that space with the male prisoner is likely to cause distress.

It truly doesn't matter if they don't have a penis and / or testicles. Their presence is likely to distress at least one female prisoner who cannot leave. Because female people are highly likely to accurately identify the sex of a male person even with all the surgical and hormonal treatments.

Why should those female prisoners have their needs completely ignored for the prioritisations of a male prisoner?

Exatly.

I can see there is a potential problem for a man who has commited a crime and has cut his penis off and pretends to be a women.

But I reject the notion that the solution is that women have to solve it and accomodate him.

Find another solution for this criminal man, that doesn't involve putting women at risk.

Also criminal men who have had extensive cosmetic surgery are not at the top of my people to spend time worrying about category.

How do male prisons keep small, slight men safe? Old men? Really unfit men? How do they keep gay men safe?

Actually the prisoners that other prisoners tend to hate are the nonces.

Do you particularly care about male prisoners OP? I can hook you up with someone who volunteers in one of our country's most notorious. The conditions are dire. I hugely admire the people who feel able to volunteer.

I don't disagree with you. If a born biological man has surgery to remove his penis and testes because he's always thought himself as a woman, I will treat her as a woman.

I had a transsexual colleague years ago. He dressed as a woman, identified as a woman and couldn't wait until surgery. He knew the surgery risks but couldn't wait. He had it while we were still working in the same department and I've never seen anyone in more pain, and happier.

Biology is not a straight forward science, genetics also play a role. I will never discriminate a minority of people which different biology have played a fundamental role in who they are.

I have a big problem with the push from governments about gender's laws allowing men with cocks and balls being considered a woman without giving a fuck about us females at all.

And that's the point isn't it. How do women benefit from any of this? Its all about mens benefit. NONE of this is of any benefit to females.

We're in 2024, and we still have simpering handmaidens trying to find a way to suck up and soothe male feelings. But what the fuck do WOMEN get out of this?

I think the vast majority of trans male to ‘female’ who have had the surgery will not be a sexual threat to women. The scary ones are the middle aged cross dressers who are doing it for fetish reasons, I don’t think there will be many who go to the lengths of removing their penis.

Having said that, I think they need to be in the prison according to their birth sex or segregated.

I agree with this. I think most of the anti trans stance is because it is unusual for men identifying as women to want to give up their penis, which appears to negate their belief they are female.

Unfortunately, while we have a cabinet composed of those like David Lammy who believes that men can grow a cervix and led by a man who thinks 99% of women don't have a penis, we can look forward to men being in women's prisons, on the BBC Woman of the Year List and in a changing room near you.
Every woman should sign up to Sex Matters led by a group of wonderful women,

You don't appear to understand the meanings of the words "biology" or "genetics".

*But what the fuck do WOMEN get out of this?'

Well the ones who are advocating for the rights of males get to win the 'be kind' badge with zero impact on their own safety and dignity.

Other than that nothing.

Also, we have to stop saying Transwoman and replace it with man. It would be a small thing but it would be a big thing if we all did it.

Can I ask if you feel that your colleague should be able to undress in a female communal changing space in front of children and women because your colleague doesn't have a 'cock and balls'?

If so, what do you think changed when your colleague had that cock and balls removed?

'friends'

Why have you put friends in quote marks? And described my feelings as misguided?

They are absolutely my friends. They live fulfilling happy lives, both married to men and have careers that they enjoy and are successful in. I know they are men, but I see them and interact with them exactly as I do my friends who are women. You can find that hard to believe but it’s true.

I refuse to demonise trans people as a class.

Yes, I agree, The hormonal changes do change their threat level too, which is something a lot of the men in wigs get angry about because they don't truly believe hormones shape personality. Again negating what it can be to have female hormones instead of male making an impact on personality doesn't suggest they really can understand what it is to be female, or want to be truly female.

A man doesn't need a penis to pose a threat to women. Many women and girls are assaulted and abused by men without the penis ever coming into play. Add to that, rape and sexual assaults are often about exercising power more than sexual gratification. So no, I don't agree that a man who has had a sex change should go to a woman's prison. That said, a man with a vagina would (I presume) be at serious risk if placed in a male prison so maybe we need to consider separate facilities for trans inmates.

You are a bloody danger.