To think that if a man has had bottom surgery they should be put in a woman’s prison?

[Bex5490]

Genuinely interested in this and not trying to goad just want to understand.

When people talk of the threat of a man in women’s spaces, I assume the danger is because of their penis.

So if that’s gone then should they be categorised as a woman?

I’m kind of of the opinion that if you’re willing to put that much effort in (as in penis removal) regardless of your chromosomes, I’m happy for you to be called a woman…is this wrong?

When my husband tried to kill me, it wasn't with his dick.

Born male and commit a crime, get incarcerated in the men's estate.

Do I hear OP volunteering to share a cell with Barbie Kardashian? Thanks OP! That's a lovely gesture, I'm sure it'll be appreciated by the other female inmates.

@Bex5490 You've been brainwashed as a young girl to put the needs of males first - as many of us have. Its sad that you are trying to look for a way to include big strong but 'de-penised' males into vulnerable women and girls spaces because you are pre-conditioned and programmed to 'be kind'. I ask you though; why not 'be kind' to women and girls? Why do you feel the need to simper for males and find a way for them to be in our spaces?

Why not be a feminist and have female solidarity with women and girls?

They will be a woman in every way except for biologically. And will have been living as a woman for years. No, they're not an actual woman, of course. But for all intents and purposes, they are

And what ways are those other than biologically? What purposes do women fulfil that these men also fulfil?

Why prisons in particular? Males who are imprisoned are more likely to be violent and dangerous; far more male prisoners are violent than female. If we allow castrated men in women's prisons, why can't castrated men be allowed in any women's space?

Is a woman a castrated man?

There are lots of vulnerable men in men’s prisons and they should all be kept safe. If all this energy being put into getting violent dangerous men/ male people of any identification and any medical condition locked up with women was put into making prisons and vulnerable prisoners safer then it might actually be a force for good.

If you chop off Mike Tyson’s cock, it won’t take away his strength, or aggression or violent nature.

Bottom surgery? At least call it by its real name.

This is when I would advocate for a third space option as trans prisoners are such a small part of the population (allegedly) and are apparently more at risk of abuse building a couple of smaller prisons shouldn't be an issue

There are many male body cues that remain completely unchanged by hormones and surgeries.

It is some significant misinformation that you have come across if you believe that they are 'a woman in every way except for biologically'. Hormones and surgeries on genitalia do not change body proportions and gait for instance. Can any of them ever truly emulate a female voice tone? And facial feminisation is also rarely successful and I believe if it is successful to deceive some people initially, with age I doubt that it remains effective.

So that myth of 'passing' because they might look like a tall masculine looking woman, is really a myth because of the remaining body cues that many female people will perceive over time and interaction.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3356084/I-ve-gone-child-Husband-father-seven-52-leaves-wife-kids-live-transgender-SIX-YEAR-OLD-girl-named-Stefonknee.html

This has actually made me feel sick. Six year-olds don't have dummies. Nor do they have boobs and wear a bra.
And the couple he lives with let him play with their grandchildren
Also further details in the article are repellent

He is a HE. He shouldn't be anywhere near children
And that organisation should be banned

Absolutely not. For all the reasons already posted but especially because it would be abhorrent for special treatment within the prison system to be based on wealth (given that such surgeries are normally self-funded in the uk, rarely on the nhs) or for the "gatekeeping" criteria to require someone to have a very dangerous surgical procedure which most trans individuals quite rightly decide not to risk.

But yes womanhood is not something that we gatekeep and that has negotiable entry criteria based on magnitude of effort or desire. Being male confers advantages in physical and social dominance and power which doesn't go away with a chopped off willy or with hormonal suppression, and there's a lot of abuse and violence that doesn't need a penis to perpetrate.

Many transwomen are perfectly lovely people. These are the ones that don't commit crimes. The ones that have committed crimes can not under any circumstances be considered sufficiently "safe" for this. There should be, and are, adequate facilities within the male estate for them to be kept safely separated from the rest of the male population.

Agree with the majority. Also with pp who used correct language

Why are they all so bloody desperate to lock males up with women and girls?

Is there some kind of fetishistic trend for inflicting additional punishment onto already incarcerated women? Do people like this get a thrill out of adding fear and distress to a court imposed sentence? Being deprived of liberty not enough for you? Now you want the women to fear voyeurism, assault, sexual harassment and humiliation as well?

What is WRONG with you?????

If I have a pair of rabbit ears surgically stitched to my head am I a rabbit?

If I have my breasts removed due to illness am I a man or a pre-pubescent girl?

If I have a cock surgically stitched onto my body am I a man?

If I paint my face black, am I black?

For those struggling, including you OP, the answer to all those things is NO.

I think that if they are on hormones and have cut bits off, they should be held in a ‘women’s’ prison, but not permitted to shower/bunk with the biological women. So a mostly separate prison on the same grounds.

The allocation to a women’s’ prison would be a sop to their mental wellbeing (and protect their more brittle bones from the men), but the extent to which they should be able to access/integrate with the actual women is very much still up for debate.

They will be a woman in every way except for biologically.

Biology is literally what makes a woman. I'm a teapot in every way except for being a teapot.

For those saying that chopping off your penis doesn’t make you a woman - as I’ve said…I agree!

So if you agree they are not women but are men without penises, why are you then saying that men should be housed in a female prison?

Also, have you given any though to the women that would have to share a space with these men without penises and how they might feel about it?

As always it seems there's no joined up thinking.

never underestimate how low a man will sink to gain access to women

So you're admitting your misguided feelings for these males would over-ride any loyalty and decency and sympathy you have for your sisters and he female sex class? Really? Are you that far gone with the handmaiden act that you would throw the human rights of the vulnerable sex class aside for these 'friends'?!??

I'm only peraored to discuss the about 'the what abut the ones who've chopped thier dicks off?' exceptions once we've all agreed no one with a penis should be allowed in women's spaces or sports.

Once that principle is settled I'll discuss the outlier exceptions.

Still a man despite castration and penisectomy. Men have no place in women's prisons, toilets, changing rooms and other safe spaces. It's not really that hard to understand.

I don't disagree either

This is always an interesting point of discussion because it does impact so many aspects of life for female people. However, it is very much unravelling piece by piece.

If people generally don't believe that any male person is a female person for the case of which prison they are placed into, and don't believe that any male who has been through any part of a testosterone driven puberty person should be playing sport as a female, why should any of these male people be considered as female people in ANY situation?

@miniaturepixieonacid what does living as a woman entail?