To think that if a man has had bottom surgery they should be put in a woman’s prison?

[Bex5490]

Genuinely interested in this and not trying to goad just want to understand.

When people talk of the threat of a man in women’s spaces, I assume the danger is because of their penis.

So if that’s gone then should they be categorised as a woman?

I’m kind of of the opinion that if you’re willing to put that much effort in (as in penis removal) regardless of your chromosomes, I’m happy for you to be called a woman…is this wrong?

It would help if we could have a handy guide so we know whether something is transphobia or not.

If you insist that the only difference between trans women and men is “some lipstick”, “a dress”, body-mutilation, superficial fantasising / imagining / delusion / mental illness - or some mash up of all of these things, then yes you are denying the realities of trans experience/ existence. You don’t understand what being trans is and you are very transphobic

Yes, it is important to call out discrimination. The discrimination against women.

Nobody is forcing lesbians to have sex with trans women.

Coercion, not physical force.

What is being trans then?

Sweetie, theres no difference between transwomen and men. Transwomen are men.

You know that.

@Cheesytoastie many many young lesbians have been very open online about the pressures they've faced to sleep with "transbians" for fear of being labelled transphobic.
There are specific focus groups and information sessions set up to lecture lesbian students on "the cotton ceiling" to convince them that seeing these men as any less of a lesbian than they are is bigoted and hateful. These young women are already vulnerable and one only has to spend an hour in online forums where they talk and meet to see that this is a very real issue they're facing. It's little more of a rebranding of the old "fuck them straight" trope that lesbians used to be subjected to. If you're unaware that this level of pressure exists for young lesbians then you're at best, naive.

Perfect example right here.

Of something that isn't transphobic and is objectively true?
Yes. Well spotted.

Cheesy toasty and lost cat don't care about lesbians.

I think you will find that most lesbians support trans people and don’t agree with you at all

Of denying the existence of trans experience.

I think you'll find otherwise. Did you read my link? Are they all lying or will you retract your statement?

We are past the appeals to female socialisation now, as women on the thread have been clear with certain posters that it doesn't wash with us. We're not more interested in being thought of as "kind" than we are of speaking plainly about women's rights issues.

I haven't done so. Their experience is of being male, as I said. I don't deny they exist or that they experience being "trans".

A perfect example of a fact.

There is no medical or surgical treatment that can make a biological man into a biological woman - they cannot change their DNA, their skeletal structure, their endocrine system, their chromosomes.

Absolutely not. Men are bigger, stronger and more aggressive. A lot of these 'transwomen' still proclaim to like women and call themselves lesbians. Bottom surgery or not they have physical advantage and could use that to bully biological women in prison.

What is the difference then?

That does not reflect the views of the majority of lesbians. Most lesbians do not have an issue with trans people.

Why is this transphobic? There's nothing actually wrong with being a man. It's not an insult.

I think you will find that most lesbians support trans people and don’t agree with you at all

I think you will find that there are plenty of lesbians and gay men who haven't signed up to the trans agenda. In any case, it's irrelevant, we are talking about a group of lesbians having to deal with coercive male behaviour.

see post above . If there is no difference between trans women and men then yes you are denying trans experience.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385

You have no idea what most lesbians think. Large numbers have reported being pressured to have sex with transwoman and their lady-penises.

What is the difference? What is a 'transwoman'?